UGM Professor Claims Multiple TV Stations Offering to Broadcast Debate with Human Rights Minister

Zainal Arifin Mochtar, a Professor at Universitas Gadjah Mada (UGM), has claimed that numerous national television stations have contacted him offering to facilitate an open debate with Human Rights Minister Natalius Pigai.

“There have been many, many contacts. Kompas, iNews, Mojok has also invited me, as well as Tempo and Tempo TV. The most offers have actually come from research centres and study institutes,” Mochtar said when met at UGM’s Faculty of Law in Sleman, Yogyakarta, on Friday (27 February).

Mochtar also posted this information via his X (Twitter) account, tagging Pigai’s account. However, as of the afternoon, he was unsure whether Pigai had responded to the post.

According to Mochtar, even colleagues from the university’s student body have volunteered to facilitate the debate on human rights issues in Indonesia.

“I told them it’s fine, go ahead. But I think it would be best if it were open, using multiple platforms,” he said.

“Anyone can facilitate it, but I imagine it would be better to have multiple platforms rather than a single one, so everyone can watch,” he added.

Mochtar admitted that he is generally reluctant to engage in debates. He has previously declined invitations to debate on television programmes hosted by Aiman Witjaksono and Karni Ilyas.

Mochtar’s willingness to accept the debate invitation stems from what he sees as an urgent need. He believes the public must understand that in a democracy, public officials must address national problems with substantive arguments rather than mere slogans.

“They cannot respond by simply saying ‘Don’t worry, I have mastered this knowledge, I can handle it’, no, that will not do. And they cannot say ‘The state will certainly do its best for citizens’, no, that will not work. Democracy does not operate that way anymore,” he explained.

“That sort of rhetoric belongs to campaign season. ‘We will do this, we will do good, we understand the problems’—that is campaign messaging. But what about the two years of actual work? What has been accomplished? That is what truly matters,” Mochtar continued.

The professor of constitutional law believes his assessment of human rights enforcement in Indonesia has been quite poor over the past two years, describing the situation as chaotic.

Pigai’s appearance at the debate would, in Mochtar’s view, constitute a form of accountability for his performance since being appointed as Human Rights Minister. Therefore, Mochtar hopes the event will not merely become a theoretical debate.

Moreover, according to Mochtar, accepting the debate invitation is preferable to simply exchanging posts on social media.

“And in my view, this is part of holding officials accountable. I am dedicating myself to demand accountability from the minister. I do not enjoy debates, but I am willing to dedicate my time to hold the minister accountable. I am also tired of debating on Twitter, so it might as well be done face-to-face,” he asserted.

Claims he has already watched Pigai’s YouTube video

During their Twitter exchange, Pigai asked Mochtar to watch a video on Fadli Zon’s YouTube channel before debating with him.

The video, titled “Natalius Pigai: In My Opinion, That Is a Serious Human Rights Violation,” was first uploaded five years ago.

Mochtar confirmed he has already watched it. When asked for his comments on the content, Mochtar responded with a smile.

“Yes, I have watched it. Do I need to comment on it here? I think it is fine,” he said.

Background to the Mochtar-Pigai debate proposal

Previously, Pigai challenged Mochtar to an open debate on human rights issues in Indonesia, to be broadcast live on national television. This challenge emerged from an exchange of posts on X (Twitter), promising a scholarly discussion of individual controversial human rights cases.

The exchange began when Mochtar expressed his readiness to learn about human rights from Pigai.

“I agree with you, professors are often exaggerated. I would like to learn to understand human rights from you. I want to discuss and debate one by one the human rights cases in Indonesia that you say you understand so well. Just tell me when and where I can learn,” Mochtar posted on his @zainalamochtar account on Thursday (26 February).

Pigai responded immediately and agreed to the debate format on national television, live.

“I agree on national TV and live. Since you are the one inviting, I ask you to arrange it. We will speak on a scholarly level. I really want to teach you about human rights so that you understand,” Pigai replied.

He also suggested that Mochtar watch his YouTube appearance with Fadli Zon first as additional learning material, while expressing hope that the Indonesian public would witness the debate to judge the depth of a professor’s human rights knowledge.

“But watch this first for some additional human rights education before debating with me. Honestly, I really want the Indonesian people to watch how knowledgeable a professor is about human rights,” he said.

Mochtar then asked Pigai to contact the television stations, claiming he had no power to arrange media coverage.

“I have no power, sir. I hope a national TV station can facilitate this. If you contact them, it might carry more weight,” Mochtar replied.

He also mentioned his experience as a human rights researcher at the Centre for Human Rights Studies at the Islamic University of Indonesia (UII) in Yogyakarta for three years, as well as his Master’s degree in human rights law from the United States, and asserted his readiness to learn further.

“Thank you for the YouTube link. I only have three years’ experience as a researcher at UII Yogyakarta’s Centre for Human Rights Studies and a Master’s degree in human rights law from America. I would certainly be happy to learn,” he added.

Before the open debate challenge emerged, Pigai had posted a lengthy statement emphasising his experience understanding human rights from childhood amid armed conflict.

“Never mind five years. Since birth, I have lived amid the barrel of guns. Enarotali, Paniai, is the centre of conflict between the OPM and the Indonesian military. There I felt the thin line between life and death, good and evil, how people cried out, wailed and lamented, thirsted and hungered, what justice and injustice felt like,” Pigai posted on his @NataliusPigai2 X account on Wednesday (25 February).