'Moslems don't need their own movements'

Chairman of the 30-million strong Nahdlatul Ulama Abdurrahman Wahid talked to The Jakarta Post about the changing political map in Indonesia in regard to Moslem groups.

Q: Many people have been saying that when you shook hands with President Soeharto recently, it was a turning point in terms of what most people previously thought about the Nahdlatul Ulama- government relationship. What do you think about that?

A: It's their own fault to think that we had a bad relationship with Pak Harto (President Soeharto). I don't know how many times I've said there is no need to worry about that. People keep saying Pak Harto was angry with me. It's not true. We always communicate with each other. Each of us has our own channels and messengers to do so. Thus, the relationship I have with him is a normal one.

Q: Are you trying to say there is nothing special about it?

A: That's right. The President revealed it to the public. That's all.

Q: Why do you refer to it as "another correction" from the government?

A: Pak Harto realized that Moslems were not able to exploit the opportunity to take part in the development process he offered them in the 1980s, which is understandable, judging from the lack of organization as well as management experience the Moslem groups had at the time. They were left behind in almost every sector of development.

This has caused Moslem groups to feel isolated, resulting in fear and suspicion on the part of the government, including the Armed Forces, Golkar (the dominant political organization), and bureaucrats.

So, Pak Harto elevated the Moslems by forming the Association of Indonesian Moslem Intellectuals. I call this the "first correction" by Pak Harto. By doing so, Indonesian Moslems were expected to be able to focus their attention, as well as their power, to catch up.

Unfortunately, this correction was manipulated by those who wanted to exploit the Moslem banner on the political stage. Thus, Pak Harto made another correction: showing his closeness to more moderate Moslem groups who don't have any intentions of exploiting the Moslem banner.

Pak Harto is well-known for his tactics, isn't he?

Q: Some say the 1997 general election is a critical one for Moslem voters.

A: Whether or not it's critical depends on how we look at it. For me, every election is critical, and it surely will affect our future.

Q: How do you see Indonesia's politics today? Some say that Indonesia's political stage is a personalized one.

A: It is indeed personalized. The political institutions here serve certain individuals. In the United States, Congress can prevent such a thing from happening. If a U.S. president attempts to personalize a political institution, Congress will control it. Here, we have almost no parliamentary control over a President's actions. That's why our political stage is very personalized.

Q: How does this influence Moslem voters, since they are a majority here, although some say a minority?

A: Moslem voters are part of the Indonesian community. Of course, such a condition will influence them. But here, we have two different views in considering whether they are a potentially major political force or a minor one.

The first view says that Moslems are indeed a majority. Thus, every Moslem, whoever he or she is, represents the Moslem community. In this case, there is no need for the Moslem community to form a particular political movement, provided that the President and many other senior government officials are Moslems.

The second group considers that the Moslem community has to be represented by certain Moslem movements, both political (like the United Development Party) and non-political (like Muhammadiyah and Nahdlatul Ulama). In reality, there are many non-political movements whose activities and statements are political. For example, the Association of Indonesian Moslem Intellectuals.

Based on the second group's perception, Moslems can be considered as a minority. Thus, this group is making a presupposition that Moslem movements deserve more of a role than others because of their majority. The question is: Is that true?

Q: What do you think?

A: I've been saying for a long time that there is no need for the Moslem community to have its own movements.

Q: Some believe that Moslem politicians are facing a dilemma in assuming their roles. For example, if they want to be accepted on a national level, they feel they should adhere less strictly to Islamic values. Is this true?

A: What Islamic values are they talking about? My Islamic perspective does not require me to be more or less strict in my adherence to Islamic values. It comes natural to me. I'm a santri (orthodox Moslem). Up till now, I've never drunk any alcoholic beverages. I do what my religion has taught me, and nothing else. Yet, it has nothing to do with my political role.

My relationship with Nahdlatul Ulama remains good, despite my political role. It's not true either that my rapport with other religious leaders has worsened that relationship. Almost every night, I go out and preach in front of 15,000 to 20,000 of my people, sometimes even up to 50,000. Nothing has changed. They still greet me very affectionately and warmly. There is no sign of a weakening in the relationship.

I'm afraid those who say so are those who claim they represent Moslem society. But in fact, they know nothing about their people. (swa)