Human Rights Minister Natalius Pigai Challenges UGM Professor to Live TV Debate on Human Rights

Indonesia’s Human Rights Minister Natalius Pigai has challenged Prof. Dr. Zainal Arifin Mochtar, a senior professor at Gadjah Mada University (UGM), commonly known as Uceng, to an open debate on Indonesian human rights issues live on national television.

The challenge emerged from an exchange between the two figures on social media platform X (Twitter), promising an academic discussion of controversial human rights cases one by one.

The exchange began when Uceng expressed his willingness to learn about human rights from Pigai. “I agree with you, professors are often inflated. With your permission, I would like to learn about human rights from you. I want to discuss and debate one by one the human rights cases in Indonesia that you say you understand very well. Just name when and where I can learn,” Uceng wrote on his account @zainalamochtar on Thursday, 26 February.

Pigai immediately responded to the post and agreed to the format of a debate on national television live. “I agree on national TV and live. If you invite, then I ask you to prepare it. We will speak in academic terms. I really want to teach you about human rights so you understand,” Pigai replied.

He also suggested that Uceng watch his YouTube presentation with Fadli Zon beforehand as additional knowledge, whilst hoping Indonesian people would watch the debate to judge the depth of a professor’s human rights knowledge.

“But watch this first as a supplementary lesson in human rights knowledge before debating with me. Honestly I really want the Indonesian people to watch how great a professor’s knowledge of human rights is,” he said.

Uceng then asked Pigai to contact the television station. He stated that he did not have the authority to arrange with television broadcasters. “I don’t have that power sir. Hopefully there is a national TV that can facilitate it. If you contact them, it might be more meaningful,” Uceng replied.

He also mentioned his experience as a human rights researcher at the Centre for the Study of Human Rights at the Islamic University of Indonesia (UII) in Yogyakarta for three years, as well as a master’s degree in human rights law in the United States, reaffirming his readiness to learn further.

Prior to the open debate challenge surfacing, Pigai had posted a lengthy statement asserting his understanding of human rights since childhood amidst armed conflict. “Never mind five years. Since birth, I have lived in the face of gunfire. Enarotali Paniai was the centre of war between the OPM and the Indonesian Military. There I felt the thin line between life and death, good and evil, how people screamed, lamented and cried, were thirsty and hungry, fair and unfair,” Pigai wrote on his X account @NataliusPigai2 on Wednesday, 25 February.

“That is the basic essence of universal human rights understood by humanity including myself,” he added.

Pigai also wrote about his journey as a defender of the oppressed, from a human rights victim to serving as Human Rights Minister. “I have shown my integrity as a guardian of the weak (de oppreso liber). From a human rights victim to becoming the number one person in the field of human rights in the Republic of Indonesia. I work documenting history, exploring history and determining the history of human rights in this Republic,” he wrote.

He also referred to Uceng as merely an inflated professor. “To my knowledge, a professor has a high level of understanding of the essence of life, thinks in elevated literary language, high philosophical understanding, but apparently you are merely an ‘inflated’ professor,” Pigai said.