Army under Gen. Endriartono growing more powerful

Army under Gen. Endriartono growing more powerful

What is the current nature of relations between the government
and the Indonesian Military? Jun Honna, assistant professor at
the Faculty of International Relations of Ritsumeikan University
in Kyoto, spoke to The Jakarta Post's staff writer Kornelius
Purba during one of his visits to Jakarta earlier this month.

Question: Some say the relations between President Megawati
Soekarnoputri and the Indonesian Military (TNI) are warmer than
they were with her predecessor Abdurrahman Wahid (Gus Dur). Do
you share this view?

Answer: I think the relationship between the military and
Megawati is much closer than it was with Gus Dur due to his
constant meddling in TNI's affairs. That is why military officers
got angry with him and finally they helped, pushed and encouraged
the People's Consultative Assembly (MPR) to speed up Gus Dur's
impeachment.

They succeeded, and because of that contribution Megawati
needs to include the TNI in her government. That is why at least
four ministers are from a military background. They will play an
important role...

Q: Conservative elements of TNI are now said to be back in
control of the military

A: I agree, especially if you look at the messages given out by
Megawati's selection of certain people. She relies on Maj.Gen.
(ret.) Theo Syafei as an executive of her PDI Perjuangan
(Indonesian Democratic Party of Struggle). She also picked
Lt.Gen.(ret). A.M. Hendropriyono to head the National
Intelligence Agency (BIN). She has a very close relationship with
Army chief Gen. Endriartono Sutarto, and she also has a very cozy
relationship with Commander of the Army's Strategic Reserves
(Kostrad) Lt.Gen. Ryamizard Ryacudu.

These people are not hardliners, but key people in the Army.
And especially people like Hendropriyono and Theo, are also
former army special forces (Kopassus) members. I think if these
people influence Megawati's policy, it will be quite difficult to
expect genuine reform of civilian-military relations.

Q: There is an impression that the military now feels freer in
facing the people under Megawati...

A: That will depend on Megawati's policy, but of course the
military is not independent from Megawati. I think Megawati will
also try to control the military for her own political interests,
but will choose a different way from that of Gus Dur. She has
good military advisers who may influence her on how to deal with
the military...

Q: What is Megawati's strategy in dealing with the military?

A: We have to look at what happens over the next six months, but
I think Megawati's strategy for TNI is to try to control it
through the officers she is close to.

Q: Will the Army become stronger?

A: I don't think there will be a great difference between the
Megawati and Gus Dur administrations regarding the military's
role in politics. TNI keeps repeating its formal stance, on its
consensus against being involved in politics.

But the problem is that when the military is used by the
President, then the military inevitably becomes involved in
politics. That could happen with Megawati too, if she tries to
use the military for her own political interests. If that
happens, the military will resist.

The question should be... if Megawati issued certain orders,
could TNI (given its leadership's close relations with the
President) resist as easily as it did under Gus Dur's government?

Q: TNI's Territorial Chief of Staff Lt.Gen. Agus Widjojo said that
the military is ready to hand over its territorial functions to
civilian institutions. How do you see this?

A: It takes time to transform the territorial system into a more
civilian-led system regarding the regions. Whatever form it
takes, a defense system depends on the country and its geo-
political circumstances. So in reforming the system, we need to
reach a consensus between the civilians and the military. But
until now territorial management has been dominated by military
people.

In the future the military has neither the ability nor the
desire to dominate this territorial system. TNI is ready to hand
over some of its duties to civilian institutions. The question is
whether civilian institutions are really ready to take over the
regional control mechanism.

The issue is not whether TNI is ready to withdraw from its
territorial role, as it indeed has political interests. It is
easy to ask soldiers to return to barracks, but what they will do
after that?

Q: Do you think TNI is sincere in abandoning its territorial
role?

A: If you look at Thailand for instance, they have military
divisions but there is no regional military command as you have
here. Of course its geographic situation is different so we
cannot compare Indonesia directly with other countries. Thailand
is also adopting a new paradigm because the military there is
expected to follow the shift towards democracy.

Thailand's military also owns businesses, which are now being
drastically cut. Indonesia may need up to, say, 10 years,
depending on the particular area, to reduce the number of
military commands, regional military districts, district military
commands down to the sub-district level (Babinsa).

The military is now identifying sample areas to see where its
(different levels of) military command could first be dissolved,
and will watch what happens (in those areas). If that program is
successful it will expand it to larger areas.

Q: TNI has allegedly been involved in many riots and other
violent incidents. Will such a situation persist?

A: Of course it is very hard to anticipate whether the current
terrorist activities (allegedly involving TNI) will continue. But
if you look at the pattern, when the government tried to punish
people who were involved in the old regime, those kinds of
terrorist activities occurred. So maybe in the future, under
Megawati's government, if Megawati tried to punish the old guard
among the civilians and military, there is a strong possibility
that terrorist activities might happen again, aimed at
destabilizing the country.

Q: How about the current TNI mainstream?

A: The mainstream is of course people around Gen. Endriartono. He has
become popular for publicly resisting Gus Dur's political
maneuvers. Many thought Gus Dur's decree on the state of
emergency was wrong...

At that time the General received support from most of the
retired officers. This is unusual. Usually only a few retired
officers support an Army chief. Many think that this event is
similar to the one involving the late Gen. Sudirman who had the
courage to resist president Sukarno. I think the mainstream
includes Endriartono, Ryamizard, and Army deputy chief Lt.Gen. Kiki
Syahnakri.

Q: What is Gen. Endriartono's power base?

A: His power base is his good reputation as a professional
soldier, (among others things, with his) experience in East Timor
and other operations in the field. He is very straightforward, he
is not the type of person who simply talks but does nothing.
Until now he has always been assigned to key positions. He was a
key officer under Gen. Wiranto and then he became Army deputy
chief. I think his power base is his own experience as an officer
in the field. It is still difficult to find such a strong
character within TNI. He is respected by many officers.

Q: With the ongoing economic hardship the military is also in
financial difficulty...

A: After the economic crisis had started it was quite difficult
for each regional military command to augment its budget, so
soldiers' wages remained very low. That is a big problem, as we
are promoting professionalism within the military. It is easy to
say that the military should return to barracks, that it should
be professionalized, but without support from civilians in
providing a large enough budget, it will be very difficult for
the military to act professionally.

I think civilians, especially politicians, do not respect
military professionalism. They tend to look at military people
only in terms of their political interests. Within the military
there is no incentive to implement professionalism. Funding
resources usually emanate from territorial activities.

The military used to be involved in local businesses, like
providing protection for foreign companies in Irian Jaya, Aceh
and other provinces. Without such extra resources, it will be
difficult for the military to survive financially. Its sources of
financial support have become smaller and smaller.

Q: Gus Dur appointed Adm. Widodo from the Navy as TNI chief. What
will Megawati's policy be on TNI leadership?

A: There are a number of possibilities. The first choice would be
to appoint current Air Force chief Marshall Hanafie Asnan as
Widodo's successor. After a few years she might want Army
officers to command TNI. Within TNI there is a kind of agreement
to award the position of TNI chief to different forces by
rotation.

It's possible that Hanafie might lead TNI. But I think
Megawati wants the Army chief to be the TNI commander. So after
one year, there may be another change of leadership. But it is
also possible that she will directly appoint Gen. Endriartono as TNI
commander when Widodo ends his military service. If that were to
happen, we could expect some opposition from the Air Force, so
Megawati will have to be careful in handling this issue.

Q: How about antimilitary sentiment among the public?

A: The public perception of the military is not good because of
the military's past behaviors, especially its human rights
abuses. Citizens need public security, while the police has not
functioned well. That's why a recent public poll by Yogyakarta-
based Gadjah Mada University found that most people questioned
preferred the continued presence of the military commands and the
territorial system. But we have to look at the nature of their
support. Maybe they need the military commands because people
simply want security. If reliable public security could be
provided by the police, people might express a different opinion.