'Xanana': E. Timor to become nation without army

'Xanana': E. Timor to become nation without army

By Widya Saraswati

Jose Alexandre Gusmao, alias Kay Rala "Xanana" Gusmao, is no
longer merely a commandant of the armed Falintil vigilantes and a
respected Fretilin leader. As of April, he has been president of
the Council of National Resistance Timorese (CNRT) which was
formed as the result of a long reconciliation process involving
various sociopolitical forces in East Timor. Recently, peace
efforts for East Timor have received strong worldwide support.
The United Nations is urging a solution to the conflict that
began in 1974. Xanana shares his views on the latest developments
in an interview at Cipinang prison where he is held. The
following are the excerpts.

Question: How has the Habibie administration treated you?

Answer: I don't see any significant changes. The only change
is that now they give me more freedom to receive guests other
than my relatives.

Q: You receive more and more VIP guests. Does it mean that the
world is paying more attention to East Timor?

A: That's right. This is because the problem of Timor Leste (the
term Xanana uses for East Timor) is interrelated to the
prodemocracy movement in Indonesia. Thus the reform movement is
placing Timor Leste in a brighter spotlight.

Q: Is it fair to say that while Indonesia is in the spotlight
because of the crisis, you and your sympathizers are using the
momentum to promote East Timor's interests?

A: Only through serious and honest dialog will the (East Timor)
question be resolved in a just manner in line with international
laws and UN resolutions.

Q: How would you comment on the initial withdrawal of troops from
East Timor?

A: I have to say that over the 23 years of military occupation of
the territory, there have been hundreds of such ABRI (Indonesian
Armed Forces) troop withdrawals. It's only regular rotation. The
thing is troop reinforcement is never publicized.

Q: Very recently you invited Theo Syafe'i, the officer who
captured you, to meet with you. Would this help solve the East
Timor problem?

A: I think so. Among the officers (who were in charge of East
Timor) Theo Syafe'i is the best versed about Timor Leste.
(Foreign Minister) Ali Alatas, for instance, claims that all
Timorese are happy with integration while the ex-local military
chief (Theo) knows only too well that this is not the case.

Another example is Muladi (now justice minister), who observed
my trial and believes I'm a criminal.

Indonesian soldiers who have been assigned in Timor Leste know
that some officers are criminals because they kill innocent
people just to get promoted. Many battalion commanders who refuse
to go to war are honest enough to tell the people of Timor Leste
that they have the right to independence.

Q: Why didn't you choose an officer whose respect for human
rights is well-known, such as Susilo Bambang Yudhoyono?

A: I have the utmost respect for an officer like Yudhoyono who
gains regard because he upholds human rights ... But I think he
is very busy, just like my comrade Maj. Gen. Noegroho Djajoesman
(the Jakarta police chief). Theo Syafe'i has retired and is not
that busy.

Q: What's your comment on the recent talks involving Indonesia,
Portugal and the UN?

A: One of the agreements concerns the UN secretary-general's wish
to establish contact with Timor Leste figures at a level higher
than the AIETD (All Inclusive Intra East Timor Dialog).

That means there is another bid to hold consultation with
Timor Leste people. We mean to stick to our demand that Timor
Leste people be given the chance to actively participate in
future talks.

Q: What do you think is the best way to resolve the East Timor
question in a way that will be acceptable to all parties?

A: First, six to 18 months should be allocated to solve problems
related to security, such as troop withdrawal, disarmament of
paramilitary members, guerrilla withdrawal, the formation of a
police force consisting of Timor Leste people by the UN as part
of a possible deployment of peacekeeping forces.

Second, three years for national reconciliation, which
includes political education for the public, the establishment of
an administrative infrastructure, a population census under the
auspices of international bodies, political activities by CNRT
and parties or groups wanting either integration, autonomy or a
referendum.

Third, in that period we will implement a national
reconstruction phase and prepare strategies for the first five
years of development.

Q: What is it East Timorese people want most?

A: Freedom. Their right to enjoy independence and to build for
themselves an independent nation like any other peoples in the
world.

Many people believe in the "stomach philosophy", meaning that
they believe if they can give food, the people would be pleased
to be called "servants". Others say that if they can respect
Timor Leste culture, the locals would be proud to be called
"clowns".

Others assume that if they can build shops that sell
Australian apples or American donuts or Thai rice, then Timor
Leste people would feel they were relatives of (Lt. Gen.)
Prabowo.

Strangely, these "people" are not the indigenous. They are a
few clever people who enrich themselves by way of corruption,
collusion and nepotism. It is these people who want autonomy
(instead of independence).

Q: Would your release from jail help speed up a solution to the
East Timor question?

A: I would give my everything so that the (East Timor) people
could obtain freedom and build their nation.

Q: You push for referendum and you have become a laughing stock
because in a meeting in Macau several years ago Fretilin rejected
this idea. Why is that?

A: Isn't it wise to ask a servant if he or she wants freedom?
Isn't it necessary to ask the servant whether he or she will
choose to continue work or pack up and look for another master?

The problem had to do with the Apodeti that was established by
the Indonesian consul in Dili (before integration).

The best way to understand this affair is to look at the
conflict within PDI (Indonesian Democratic Party). You may ask
PDI supporters if they supported the (government-backed)
breakaway faction congress in Medan (in 1996) or the (1993)
congress (in Surabaya that elected Megawati Soekarnoputri its
chairwoman)?

Why does one supports or not support either of the congresses?
People support the legitimate one and reject the other which was
part of the New Order government's dirty politicking.

What should the Habibie administration do?

Habibie should learn about international laws, universal
principles, decolonization and UN resolutions on Timor Leste.
Habibie knows little about all these things.

Q: What do you have to say about theories that a referendum would
lead to an endless civil war?

A: Those who believe in this theory do not comprehend the reality
and history of the territory. Some local bureaucrats also harbor
the same fear. They talk like Indonesian generals who do not want
to see a just solution to the problem. They do not want to appear
as the losers in this unfair war and be treated as criminals.

Q: What makes you believe that a referendum would not end up in
war?

A: The common cause, like what had united prodemocracy forces in
Indonesia to oust Soeharto and restore democracy and social
justice.

Q: Pessimists say that if East Timor became an independent state,
it would be suicidal because the territory is very poor...

A: That's a wrong interpretation by the media. We mean to help
our people who want independence as soon as possible. The people
are aware that in a transition period they need incredible time
and capital to build infrastructure in all sectors.

This infrastructure is needed so that when we declare
independence all people will celebrate it without having to worry
about whether they have rice or if there children can go to
school.

But independence is not the end goal. It is only a means that
will allow the people to express their creativity, take part in
development and improve their living standard.

Q: But East Timor is very poor...

A: I will say that (if East Timor becomes independent), we will
adopt a development policy that focuses on rural communities and
we will not import rice from Singapore. We will not be so naive
as to start a "national car" project before the people enjoy
prosperity.

Q: What would you do if you were released?

A: I would educate my people on how to forgive people who have
brought them suffering. I would show them how to face the future,
love freedom, defend truth and justice and build democracy. My
people need to learn from history and promote love and peace.

I would cherish their dreams for independence and show that
Timor Leste can become a beautiful state with its people
educated, confident and able to live side by side with other
peoples all over the world.

Q: Is becoming head of government the end goal of your struggle?

A: I'm not a politician by training. I assumed leadership of the
popular struggle when the Fretilin president died and when all
the other senior political and military leaders were killed,
arrested or surrendered. Then there were only three of us from
the Fretilin Central Committee left in the jungle.

Q: So you don't have any ambition for power?

A: In a struggle for freedom, personal ambition always stains the
true meaning of the struggle. I believe in this wisdom. The
people's sufferings and what the guerrillas have sacrificed will
always serve to remind me of my responsibilities.

Q: You are basically a military man. If some day you are the
ruler of East Timor, are you sure you wouldn't become a military
dictator?

A: Whoever leads Timor Leste should respect the democracy that
would prevail there. The constitution will guarantee democracy,
respect of human rights and an independent judicial system.

As the manifestation of our rejection of war and/or commitment
to promoting world peace, we will become a nation which does not
have an armed forces.

In 1994, (student activist) Yenni Rosa Damayanti wrote me from
her Pondok Bambu detention house (in East Jakarta). She said,
"Always remember how people have suffered under the Soeharto
regime. Remember this: If Timor Leste becomes independent some
day, don't oppress your own people and don't make them suffer. If
you fail to uphold this principle, your struggle for independence
would be meaningless."

Q: Media reports give the impression that the Indonesian
government dislikes you so much. What's your comment?

A: If the ruler or colonialist starts praising me, I would have
to ask what's wrong with me. I always ask myself if I have
betrayed my people's struggle.

The more the Indonesian government hates me, the more I learn
to forgive them. When they stop hating me they will have to prove
to themselves that they have done nothing wrong.