Wimar believes nation will see more political freedom
Wimar believes nation will see more political freedom
JAKARTA (JP): Wimar Witoelar may not be as popular as Larry
King or Oprah Winfrey, but he is one of the best known talk-show
hosts in Indonesia. Four months after his Perspektif talk show on
SCTV was banned last September, Wimar is back by public demand on
Radio M97 FM. Several newspapers will begin carrying transcripts
of his new program this Sunday and cassette recordings will also
be made available.
The first guest on Wimar's new program called Perspektif Baru
(New Perspective) was noted economist Dr. Sjahrir. The first half
of the program was aired Wednesday Jan. 24 at 5.p.m. and the
second part yesterday at the same time.
Wimar, born in 1945, was a student activist during his years
at the prestigious Bandung Institute of Technology. He dropped
out in 1970 and went to study in the United States. He returned
home after getting his MBA from George Washington University in
1975. He is now the chairman of the PT InterMatrix Bina Indonesia
Management Consultant company.
He made his debut as a talk show host early in 1994. He was
last seen on his show with guest Mochtar Lubis, a veteran
journalist and writer. Following the banning of the program, SCTV
dropped his previously recorded shows featuring judge Benjamin
Mangkoedilaga, who ruled against the government in the
controversial Tempo case, and Abdurrachman Wahid, the outspoken
leader of Nahdlatul Ulama, the largest Moslem organization in the
country.
In a change of roles, Wimar spoke to The Jakarta Post last
Thursday about democracy, freedom of the press and a variety of
his favorite topics.
Question: Do you think freedom of the press exists here in
Indonesia?
Answer: Freedom of the press is abused. For example, there are
newspapers which make groundless reports. They don't do readers
any good, yet I don't think they should be banned. Media
publications should be free, but should also be subject to
litigation. If they are wrong, they should be taken to court.
Action should be taken after the facts. I think there are many
more people with good ideas than bad. So please give them the
freedom to express themselves.
Q: That is what should happen, but isn't reality different?
A: We are moving in the ideal direction, but the speed is not
constant.
Q: Meaning?
A: The speed is not constant because of the resistance to
change. People who want to maintain the status quo are not
interested in reform and their existence has much to do with the
unbalanced condition. Power in this country is based on yesterday
and today, instead of tomorrow. They don't care about democracy,
therefore their survival instinct tells them to curb the freedom
of speech.
Q: If they continue to restrict freedoms, do you think there
could be an explosion?
A: Historically, the strength of democracy must win, whether
fast or slow. Much depends on a communication that is open and
able to reveal social diseases. Without communication, there will
be suspicion, which will lead to censorship. That's why some
people have not been allowed to talk, and why some publications
have been banned. The authorities think the country will be
ruined if people are allowed to talk. But people would not
necessarily say bad things. For instance, had Tempo not been
banned, it would still be reporting the way it used to, which was
beneficial to the country and not destabilizing.
Q: Are you saying that they worry too much?
A: Right. Those in power create horrible scenarios not only
about the country, but about themselves. They want to be safe. In
the short term, they feel safe if no one speaks freely. But in
the long run people will suffer. They probably don't think about
the future, which is the difference between politicians and
statesmen. Politicians think about today, while statesmen think
about tomorrow. In Indonesia, there are no statesmen in power.
Q: Isn't it possible to combine the two -- to have
statesmanship and be in power?
A: That's what we want. But the reality is different. If you
think I am exaggerating, please show me a statesman with access
to power. I can easily talk about democracy because I am not in
power. But people in power that are also democratic are rare. At
the beginning of the New Order in the mid-1960s we had many. But
now they have become spoiled and do not care about democracy
anymore.
What they do not realize is that the present is much different
from 20 years ago. Both living standards and intelligence are
higher. And the economy has also changed a lot. We can't maintain
economic development without democracy. Today, people associate
Indonesian economics with market economics, which is controlled
by financial, money and capital markets, which are transparent
and free. If investors in the Jakarta stock exchange worry, they
will withdraw their money, just like what happened in Mexico.
Thus we have to be more democratic.
Q: Earlier in this interview you mentioned social diseases.
What are they?
A: Suspicion, ambivalence and the interests of certain groups.
There is a long list of social diseases, but those are the top
three.
Avoiding the problems will only make them worse. For example,
people say poverty is natural instead of admitting that it is a
product of the government. In fact, it is clear that it (poverty)
can be controlled by the government with its policies on
development, taxation, infrastructure and regional autonomy.
Poverty is a product of the government -- just like development
is a product of the government.
Access is given to certain groups based on special interests
such as religion, social strata and education. Intellectuals are
separated from non-intellectuals. That is useless for nation
building.
Corruption is interpreted as a trifle violation, but
dissidence and restlessness are interpreted as subversion. Those
in power simply aren't willing to communicate.
Q: How bad are these diseases?
A: Very bad, but there is a remedy. I am optimistic about
this. Let people talk, because in society and political
institutions there is much intelligence and responsibility. The
official political institutions Golkar, the Indonesian Democratic
Party and the United Development Party are sociopolitical
parties. The economy is managed by bankers, businesses and
traders that don't care about the three parties, the Association
of Indonesian Moslem Intellectuals (ICMI) or other organizations.
Those who care are those who want to have a seat in power or
those who have access to power.
If we talk about people, we don't necessarily talk about the
millions of people out there. What if we just talk about
professionals and urbanites who are not represented (in the
political parties). They liked Perspektif, which did not have any
restrictions. It was naked. There is a lot of social frustration
out there because communication gets stuck.
Indonesia, despite itself, has a reservoir of citizens who are
smart, responsible and interested in national stability. They are
newspaper readers, intellectuals, taxi drivers, bus drivers, shop
attendants. They know that there is injustice. They are afraid of
the government, and they do not respect the government.
Indonesia is a strong, beautiful country. Political awareness
is improving, but outside of the system, which is tightening. The
good ones are kicked out of the system. They become a black hole,
dangerous and willing to absorb anything. Or they're neutralized
and done away with.
Q: You earlier said that the banning of any publication should
be handled in court. How about the banning of your talk show? Why
didn't you take it to court?
A: It was not banned. SCTV dropped the program because they
were threatened by those in power, individuals. The TV station
had every right to drop the show. If the station managers had
sent me a letter banning the show, I would have sued them. But
that's not the case. The TV station paid me. If a rich man buys
paintings and then puts them in a warehouse, you can't do
anything.
Today we are facing a much bigger enemy, which is the abuse of
power. But corruptors can avoid the law, not to mention those who
abuse their power.
Q: Do you believe in the law?
A: I used to distrust the law. But I started to believe in the
law following some encouraging court decisions. The case of
Perspektif was very sophisticated. It involved a godfather who is
untouchable. It was an untraceable crime.
But let me make myself clear. I love Indonesia. It is a
beautiful country. There are only a few people who are not
pleasing and I believe that history will take them down. I don't
have any intention to oppose anyone. On the other hand, there are
many people concerned with politics. And I think my duty is to
become a good cheerleader, so that those good people will not be
hopeless. One day the dark cloud will be blown away by the summer
wind. There will be liberation. (sim)