The masses behind East Java rallies

East Java's rallies have drawn much attention over the past few days. The Jakarta Post talked to Surabaya-based sociologist Hotman Siahaan on the outpouring of the masses there amid protests by supporters and opponents of President Abdurrahman "Gus Dur" Wahid in other areas. Excerpts:

Question: Are we seeing a turnout of "people power" in the recent rallies?

Answer: That's going too far. In a "people power" movement people don't see the government as their representative anymore. The movement involves all elements of society, not just one or two small groups of people. Masses demonstrating in East Java were only expressing their solidarity ...

You have lived here for almost half your life; how would you describe the characteristics of the East Java people?

There is no such thing as "East Java people". East Java is an administrative frame to call a province. It cannot be used to describe a social or cultural behavior.

There are many cultures here, it's very plural. Each has its own characteristics.

East Javanese are known as being open and brash. Do you agree?

For some areas, yes. The Arek culture, which is the most exposed, covers Surabaya, Malang, Sidoarjo, Pasuruan and Jombang. They are known as brave, open and very expressive. But in other parts of East Java, we have Mataraman in Kediri, Ponorogo, Madiun ... (where) people are not that open.

One of their main philosophies is backing off and engaging in much sweet talk to win the game. The eastern parts of Banyuwangi and the surrounding area house the Osing culture. Then there is Tengger in Mount Bromo area, Pandalungan in the central region, and don't forget the Madurese, who have very different characteristics.

How would you define the communities of the Nahdlatul Ulama (NU), the organization formerly chaired by Gus Dur?

This is easier. Basically NU people regard their leaders very highly, almost as being superhuman, like an apostle. That's why they are very obedient to what their leaders say. Besides, this group of people has a strong base in grass roots.

Were the demonstrators' behavior typical of NU followers?

No, you can't stereotype people like that. The NU is the NU, and it is found everywhere in Indonesia, not just in East Java.

In other areas, they don't behave similar to NU people in East Java, which is in itself plural. (Protesters) were most probably from the Arek, the strongest subculture in East Java. But some other subcultures might possibly have merged with them.

Some community leaders claim that East Java is NU territory.

NU leaders always claim that East Java is their region, but the election results proved that the National Awakening Party (founded by Gus Dur) got only more or less 30 percent of votes here. Rallies by NU people are acts of free expression and examples of democracy. But it was a democracy focusing on a leader. Especially because our President, who they fanatically support, is not only President but also an ulema, a wali (guardian) to them.

People in Yogyakarta also supported the President and condemned Amien Rais, a leader in their hometown. Your comment?

It shows that nobody can really determine which region belongs to which group. Even though the Muhammadiyah was founded in Yogyakarta, and Amien Rais basically lives there, I am not surprised that he has no roots in Yogyakarta.

The President and NU political leaders stated earlier that they no longer had control over the masses.

I cannot accept the justification that the kyai (religious scholars) and ulema couldn't control their people nor stop the violence. Politically, they had to give such a statement ... The President and other ulema and kyai could stop the violence and could control their people if they wanted to.

The rallies (on Wednesday) displayed good control. I am impressed, that with hundreds of thousands of people (apart from Golkar's office), no other glass window was broken, no shop nor office was destroyed.

Compared to past violent demonstrations, demonstrators were quite in order. This might emphasize that they were under control and had a clear plan.

Why did they only target Golkar offices?

Golkar is the easiest victim to target. It is the common enemy for many elements in society.

People have also condemned the legislature (DPR) as not being representative of the people, but of only political parties.

Yes, the people are right. The DPR is more a representative of political parties' voices. DPR's ambition is so strong, it undermines the people's aspirations." (Sirikit Syah)