Scholar says Indonesia more visible in the U.S.

WASHINGTON D.C. (JP): For better or for worse, Indonesia has become more visible in the United States.

Harry Harding, dean and professor of the Elliot School of International Affairs at George Washington University, attributes two factors that have generated greater American public interest in the developments of Indonesia recently: Indonesia's rise as a regional power, and the election campaign scandal involving the Lippo business group, which is now the subject of a Congressional investigation.

But Harding says the attention given to Indonesia by those in the U.S. remains low compared to those paid to many other Asian countries.

At 51 years of age, Harding is an old Asia hand and has authored several books about the region, including Organizing China, which won the 1986 Masayoshi Ohira Memorial Prize, and A Fragile Relationship: the United States and China, named as outstanding academic book in 1992 by Choice Magazine.

He is active in at least eight international organizations, one of which is the Asia Foundation where he is trustee, a position that led to his first "professional visit" to Indonesia last year. In a recent interview, Harding says he was deeply impressed with the critical attitude of the people he met in Indonesia.

As part of reforming the Elliot School's graduate program, Harding recently added Southeast Asian studies to the curriculum and hired more professors, including Ronald Palmer, former American ambassador to Malaysia.

The following is an excerpt of the interview, in his office, on his impressions of Indonesia and its relations with the United States.

Q: Tell us about your impression of your trip to Indonesia

A: I enjoyed it very much. It was my first professional visit there and my first visit to any place other than Bali, and I was very impressed, especially with the people I met. I went with the Asia Foundation and the foundation has an enormous range of contacts in Indonesia, everyone from high officials in the government to journalists, to Megawati (Soekarnoputri) herself. I was very impressed with all of this, as well as the dynamism of the country. On the other hand, it was also clear that the country faces some very serious problems in the years ahead, so the challenge will be to overcome them successfully, or at least to manage them successfully.

What do you think of the relations with the United States?

In general, those relationships are good, but there are increasing concerns, specifically about human rights. But also, I think, more generally about the ability of the political system in Indonesia to adjust to the pressures and demands of economic success. And so the use of these contradictions could always produce a kind of explosion that could do some damage to the relationship with the United States.

Would the Lippo contribution issue affect bilateral relations?

So far as I can tell from outside the government, this issue has not had a major impact on U.S.-Indonesia relations. That particular case was the first in a series that is being seen as an example of an attempt by China to secure influence in the United States. So, I think, that the case of the Lippo group is not being interpreted entirely as a U.S.-Indonesia issue. I'm not sure if it has that much impact on relations. It is true that Indonesia may be somewhat more visible in the United States, in American politics today than it has been in the past. I'm not sure how much of that is due to the Lippo case specifically and how much of that is due to the fact that Indonesia is increasingly becoming recognized as a very important regional power with very serious internal problems.

Even though there has been an increase in attention to Indonesia, this comes from a very low base. So that the amount of attention, by any standard, remains low. The attention paid to Indonesia remains, of course, quite far below that paid to China, Japan and Hong Kong, let alone below that paid to Vietnam. It might be on par with Singapore and Burma (Myanmar). I won't exaggerate on the extent to which Americans are now focussed on Indonesia.

Some people say that because of the embarrassing campaign contribution scandal, the Clinton administration will be reluctant to do something that could be seen as doing favors for Indonesia. What do you think?

It is always dangerous for someone outside government to speculate on motivation. You have to ask them. But you know, if there have not been other issues in the relationship, specifically with regards to human rights and labor rights, then I don't think this contribution would have made that much difference. So we shouldn't exaggerate the importance of this relationship between Mr. Clinton and Mr. Riady. But certainly, it makes it difficult for the administration to do something that is positive and controversial.

What areas of Indonesia do you see as significant to the United States?

There are a number of groups and individuals who are concerned about the political situation in Indonesia, and specifically about the question of human rights, and perhaps more in East Timor than in any other part of the country.

There are other people who see Indonesia in more geopolitical terms as the largest and therefore most powerful member of ASEAN, as a country that clearly will be, and is already, a major subregional power in the Asia Pacific region and one that has played an important, I would say, constructive role in a number of regional institutions...so people who are interested in geopolitics would be interested in Indonesia in that dimension.

And finally, from a business perspective, Indonesia has been identified, during the first Clinton administration, as one of the so-called "big emerging markets". There is a realization that Indonesia is a very large country that is growing fast, although there are serious concerns about various aspects of the business climate in Indonesia for both trade and investment.

Is there any pro-Indonesia people in the United States?

I'm not sure anybody wants to identify themselves as being pro any country other than the United States. Many of the groups that I mentioned are willing to acknowledge many positive aspects of Indonesia. Certainly, the business community and people responsible for economic relations in the government acknowledge that Indonesia is an important emerging economy that has been quite successful, especially in the recent past. In the same way, there are those who are prepared to acknowledge Indonesia in a regional and political role. There may be some groups who are concerned with other issues, like human and labor rights, who are more critical. But I don't think we are in a situation to say that they are anti-Indonesia groups, nor to say pro-Indonesia groups. Rather there are people who are interested in certain, specific aspects of the Indonesian scene, and of course regional specialists are very much interested in Indonesia as a whole.

Do you foresee political changes in Indonesia in the near future?

My impression, frankly, when I was in Indonesia was how critical everyone was of the political system, including people that you wouldn't think. In general, there is a phrase that my colleague, in a very different context many years ago, used to describe this kind of situation. He called it "regime fatigue". And I kind of have a sense of that, a widespread sense, that there is a need for change.

What about the view that change won't happen without outside pressure, say from the United States and the European Union?

In general, change comes from the inside of any country. In some cases, we have pressed countries very hard. We pressed North Korea extremely hard, but we don't see any significant reform. We have pressed Burma (Myanmar) very hard, and we have pressed Cuba very hard for 40 years. So basically, there has to be a decision from inside to undertake positive changes. I think that there is a responsibility in the international community to criticize violations of human rights, especially to point out that, in this kind of situation, there is a need for political change.

The contradiction between Indonesia's economic and social dynamism on one hand, and its political system on the other, has become more serious. At the same time, I think, we see some disturbing trends in the society itself in terms of the growth of ethnic and religious difference, the politicization of Islam in new ways, and economic inequalities.

I think most people see this as a frightening and try to say that change has to occur. And the sooner, the better.

-- Yenni Djahidin