Much-maligned Kwik finally answering his critics

By Bruce Emond

JAKARTA (JP): It is clear that former coordinating minister for economics, trade and industry Kwik Kian Gie wants to set the record straight.

Three weeks after tendering his resignation, Kwik has come out with all guns firing in what he terms a "counter-defense". While former ministers often choose to quietly fade into the background, he is talking openly about his tumultuous 10-month Cabinet experience.

Now 65 and planning to return to the legislature, Kwik studied economics at the Nederlandsche Economische Hogeschool in Rotterdam and spent most of the 1960s living and working in the Netherlands. He returned to Indonesia in 1970 and worked in different business fields, including plantation management.

Kwik said his great interest was always politics; throughout the 1980s he sold off his interests in his business enterprises. In 1987 became an active member of the Indonesian Democratic Party (PDI). He also cofounded a business school, STIE IBII, which continues to this day.

His business experience and loyalty to party chairwoman Megawati Soekarnoputri throughout her persecution under the New Order regime led to his appointment to the first Cabinet of President Abdurrahman Wahid last October. Although he chooses to play down his ethnicity, the honor was also notable because he was only the second Chinese-Indonesian Cabinet member since the late 1950s.

It is apparent that he was stung by the barrage of criticism, including questions about his competence, which he endured during his months in office. As the interview came to a close, Kwik handed over a copy of his diploma from the Hogeschool, outlining the different areas of economics he studied. He comes across as a hurt but not broken man, someone whose pride is most definitely on the line.

Here is an excerpt of an interview last Tuesday at his office in Tanah Abang, Central Jakarta.

Question: Before you went into politics, you made the decision to relinquish your business interests -- why?

Answer: Because I really did not like business. Maybe I can explain a little. From the outset, I was really interested in the world of politics, from the time I was a university student in the Netherlands when I headed the Indonesian students association there. And when I went to Europe I didn't intend to study economics; I actually was set to study political science at the London School of Economic and Political Science.

But on my way to London, I stopped in Rotterdam where my older brother was studying economics. That was in 1956. A few days after I arrived, my brother fell sick, went into the hospital and died nine months later. Because he was alone and I happened to be there in Rotterdam, I took care of him, visiting the hospital every day, and I decided to stay in Rotterdam and study economics. It was mainly because my brother asked me why I wanted to study politics and told me there was no need to study politics if I wanted to go into the field ... he pointed out that there were a lot of leaders who were from economic backgrounds, like Harold Wilson in England ... he told me that the role of politicians was to improve the welfare of the people...

But when I came back from the Netherlands in 1970, I realized that it was not the right time to go into politics, it was such a chaotic time under the domination of Soeharto who would not give a chance for real politicians ... But in 1987, even though it was still the era of Soeharto, I thought what else am I waiting for. I decided to enter PDI, which at the time was the smallest political party ...

Yet at that time it was very unusual for Chinese-Indonesians to be in politics. Did you face discrimination?

I've never had that feeling, perhaps because it was a continuous process. Like when I was a student and picked to head the Indonesian students association; there were a lot of members and many of them were pribumi (native Indonesians). And when I came back here in 1970, I never felt any discrimination directed at me. What I mean is that many people talk about it, and many say it is so, but I never felt discriminated against.

I have a very different opinion. When ethnic Chinese who have changed their names are asked to write their old Chinese names, they feel offended and discriminated against. I don't understand why they must feel offended if they are asked that; the reality is that they are of Chinese descent, they do have Chinese names.

Or when they have to process something, and they are asked for money, and they think it is because they are ethnic Chinese. I don't believe it is so; I have many pribumi friends who face the same thing. So when they're asked for money, it's not because their Chinese, but because the whole system is corrupt, where power is used for the ultimate goal of seeking money ... What is more striking, more apparent, is that if the ethnic Chinese really are discriminated against, how can you explain that the ethnic Chinese are so rich?

Some would argue that it's only possible through collusion.

Yes, but collusion means that they don't hate Chinese. If they hated the Chinese, why not practice collusion with other native Indonesians? ... When I entered the party in 1987, I was entrusted to take part in the campaign, and I gave speeches before the crowds, with the vast majority of them and the other people taking part in the campaign pribumi. And it was clear then that there was no discrimination ...

Could it be said that you had your own conglomerate before you sold off your businesses?

Oh no, not at all ... I wrote a book, which is a compilation of articles of mine about dreaming about being a tycoon ... and in that book it's clear that I am not out to get businesses, businesspeople. But what I am opposed to are dirty practices, dishonest practices by businesspeople who are bold enough to break the law in a country where the law does not function. Then they become large and very rich and they have a conglomerate.

For me, a conglomerate is a person or a group which has a lot of businesses. In Indonesia, "conglomerate" has the connotation of a big company, a giant company. Actually, it's a group or family with a lot of firms. I explain that clearly in my book. Because of that, and because it was well-known, I have recently come to distinguish between "white" conglomerates and "black" conglomerates, by which I mean those who are corrupt. I am not out to get the white conglomerates, only the black ones because of their really dirty practices ...

But are they the rule, not the exception, or the exception, not the rule?

They are the exception to the rule. That's why in the book, I talked about their practices of deceit... and it's clear in there that I didn't make any type of generalization. This is very important, because the bad conglomerates, the ones who felt threatened and disturbed by me, launched a counterattack. And one part of that counterattack was to portray me as someone who was antibusiness, which is untrue. And the evidence is in my writings from 1989 on ... But despite all that, despite the fact that it's all clear, in my books, in my articles, these tycoons -- one of the most vocal ones is Sofyan Wanandi, but there are many -- say that Kwik is antibusiness, anti this, etc.

It was a deliberate campaign and it became serious when PDI Perjuangan won the most votes in the elections, and the sense was that if Megawati became president, I would have an active role in the government. And they became very scared ... Of course, they could not rattle Megawati, but they kept on at Gus Dur for months before his election, telling him not to even think of putting me in the Cabinet: 'he is antibusiness, unfriendly to the market, all of his businesses went bankrupt' ... But when Gus Dur believes in someone, it cannot be shaken ... The attack continued until I left the Cabinet -- that I failed, that the economic team was weak, that I had no thinking whatsoever, that nobody understood in what direction I was going. And the campaign was extraordinary, and was in the newspapers, and eventually made it to foreign newspapers ...

It was such an immense campaign that it ultimately reached Gus Dur, that I was weak, that I was not up to the job of being a minister, that I had done nothing prestigious. Maybe that entered into his thinking, maybe not ... Apart from the steambath issue (his office was besieged by protesters after reports he owned a share in a steambath, but Kwik said he sold his share in 1982), there's a smear campaign against my competency, that I didn't have a sense of urgency, that I didn't have a sense of crisis, that I was hopeless at teamwork, all those things which continue up to now. But all of it is contradicted by the reality because I can show the facts that I was successful during those 10 months. So what do you want? ...

You seem a proud man. It must have been hard for you to keep silent during all the criticism.

Oh, I suffered a lot during those months, but now I must come back to the way I really am ...

Do you have any regrets -- about taking the position, anything you did as minister, about being quiet?

No, not at all. I regret being quiet, but it was only for a few months, and now I am back ...

You acknowledge that you have made a lot of enemies. Were you ever threatened?

Once I was invited to breakfast and the person said to me, "You know, someone could pay someone to have you killed". But I thought, well, I have millions of people behind me, supporting me. They could try to do that but then see what happens.

In a different time, would you ever want to be a minister again?

Yes, if the situation was different. If sometime Gus Dur died or something and Megawati became president, and if she wanted me to, then I would have to because we have been through so much together, such difficult times, 27 July (the takeover of PDI headquarters), there was nobody who wanted to know us ... you never know.