Former governor recalls growths of the city

The recent closure of the city's "rehabilitation" center for prostitutes in Kramat Tunggak, North Jakarta, finally ended the long-held controversies about the area. The Jakarta Post recently talked to the capital's governor from 1966 to 1977, Ali Sadikin, 72, who initiated the site and other contentious policies. Following are excerpts of the interview:

Question: You have kept on expressing disagreement about the closure of the city's oldest red-light district Kramat Tunggak. Why?

Answer: I have to answer this by giving a background of humanity. Adam and Eve were created to civilize, based on morality. This is a fact. Any religion prohibits any action against morality. But human beings are not angels. We know that rape reports have occurred for a long time, even in the Middle East. The first thing people want to know when they go abroad is the whereabouts of prostitution (centers). I visited Amsterdam, The Hague and Hamburg, and saw well-organized prostitution sites there, but not by the government.

Kramat Tunggak was organized by the government. So politically, it was my responsibility. I hate seeing prostitutes wandering around everywhere in Jakarta. I also learned that Bangkok had successfully localized prostitutes. Then I adopted that measure in Kramat Tunggak which was originally for the rehabilitation (of the women). I chose Kramat Tunggak because it was located in the middle of a swamp. I selected it by myself. It was truly designated as a brothel complex near the seaport of Tanjung Priok. No single inhabitant was there at that time. So, if there is someone to be blamed, it's the local residents who came after Kramat Tunggak operated. This is due to urbanization. What are your other reasons? A: It has been reported that there were some 1,600 prostitutes (in Kramat Tunggak). But (in closing it down) have we thought about the impact on related people seeking an income in the district? The complex has been running for almost 30 years. There could be up to 3,000 people, including kiosk owners, security guards, pedicab and taxicab drivers and so on earning a living.

Just one old question: can prostitution be eliminated? Indonesia has now become one of the poorest nations in the world. Poverty will increase. We have to remember that no woman wants to become a prostitute. Most of them came from poor families, they needed the money to support their families. So the next question is: do the ulema and city councilors ever think about this, how will those poor families be supported? Can those who strongly oppose prostitution provide better jobs? The government and House of Representatives have never seriously held a hearing about this. It sounds like you defend prostitution. Not really. This is about poverty. This about how to help poor people -- relating to some 40 million unemployed people and half of the nation's total population who live below the poverty line. What are they -- the government, legislators, religious leaders, public figures -- thinking about this? I think I'm entitled to a medal to be dubbed as a governor of vice because I created Kramat Tunggak. Is localizing prostitution the best thing to do? I would like to quote what sociologists have commented about this matter. It's much better to centralize prostitution than to let the prostitutes operate on the streets. It's much easier to control them in terms of health. When they are scattered, how can we control sexually transmitted diseases and HIV/AIDS? But drugs and crimes would also flourish in such a complex. No. When there's a solid collaboration with National Police or the military, we can control everything. Are you saying that there was a special arrangement with the military to run Kramat Tunggak during your administration? No. Not at all. Security was under control, no need for exclusivity. What would you say is the major cause of Kramat Tunggak's closure? Public persistence. The City Council also urged governor Sutiyoso to close it down. It's a bit strange -- they urged the governor long ago. But I don't know the real reason. It could have been related to the drinking water project, but I don't want to talk about it. I pity Sutiyoso. Apart from prostitution, you also legalized gambling in the capital to boost city revenue. Was there no other way? I'll give the background of Jakarta and my initial assignment as a governor ... of the capital. During Dutch rule, Jakarta or Batavia as it was then known, was the center of government affairs, not a hub for trading or business, which was centralized in Surabaya (East Java). Batavia was designated to accommodate only some 600,000 people. In 1966, when I was appointed governor, the population was already at 3.4 million, with many social problems, including poor social infrastructure for education, markets, medicine, art and culture and so on. I had a very serious social problem due to urbanization; (problems) were not because of original Jakartans.

I had to be very clear about my vision and mission in developing Jakarta and creating it as a commercial and business center; a city of industry and service including tourism. What did you do? I set up the Indonesian Chamber of Commerce and Industry (Kadin). I thought I had to invite investors. I also thought it was necessary to create more job opportunities. I wanted Jakarta to live around the clock. Therefore more people -- up to three times more -- could have jobs. That was not enough. Indonesia had at that time 26 provinces, Jakarta had to be able to represent this. I created, for example, the Jakarta Art Council and the Ismail Marzuki Arts Center (TIM). At that time, many leading artists came to TIM. I think what I did was for the people. How did you arrange that? That's what's important. I needed money for the development. I learned that the budget allocated for Jakarta was only Rp 66 million -- not billion -- for 3.4 million population in a poor capital. Out of that figure, Rp 22 million was from taxation. I also totally reorganized the government apparatus. The municipality's income scheme for its personnel was upgraded to abolish illegal levies. I intensified taxation and fees. We could not obtain income from taxes if there was a poor system. I refurbished the building and invited Muspida (Local Consultative Council comprising civilian and military representatives) to discuss how to develop Jakarta. (Ali Sadikin, popularly known as Bang Ali, left a budget of some Rp 116 billion when he resigned in 1977) What else? Since many things were greatly lacking to serve 3.4 million residents, I had to provide rehabilitation and development. Rehabilitation was necessary. For me, development is about looking to the future. I felt I could not serve Jakartans who only knew that it was the duty of the governor to develop Jakarta, not the nation's president or ministers. So, I wanted to be a good governor, not a stupid one. I learned that there were illegal gambling activities in Jakarta. I was told that there were some authorities backing and protecting the activities. A staff member of mine who was an expert in legalization (issues) and law told me that there was an ordonantie (regulation) allowing a governor to legalize gambling. Then I called Muspida, informing them that I would legalize gambling so that we could impose taxation. I didn't ask permission from the City Council and (then president) Soeharto. I only reported my plan.

This was to avoid the matter of them being held responsible. It was my personal responsibility. The gambling sites were in Chinatown in Kota, the Djakarta Theater (Central Jakarta) and Ancol (North Jakarta). In a short period, city income from gambling taxes became the largest, followed by vehicle taxes and building and land taxes. With such assets, I could develop Jakarta. And the consequences? Yes, I learned that the urbanization rate was surging. Once I asked a businessman from Ujungpandang, (South Sulawesi), why he had come to Jakarta. He told me that legalization schemes in Jakarta were very clear and conducive, therefore services were smooth.

I understood that gambling was prohibited by religion. That was and is my problem. When the time comes, I will take the responsibility. At that time many people complained and protested my policy. I told them that a great deal of infrastructure, including schools and roads, had been developed with the money from gambling taxation. So to those who were against my policy, I said, please never use the roads and take your children from the (public) schools and never drink the water from city water supplies. All that infrastructure was constructed with the money from gambling. Why did you act in such a controversial manner? That was all for Jakarta's social welfare. I wanted to improve human life here. There had to be action. We couldn't just pray. I may be sinful in front of God, but not in front of humankind. How did you learn about gambling? First, I don't gamble. I learned about the concept from places for gambling activities in Macau, Monaco, Las Vegas and Genting (Malaysia). I understand that in Malaysia, which is a Muslim- dominated nation, only expatriates and the Chinese community are allowed to gamble, because gambling for the Chinese is to throw away bad luck. I also had a list of Indonesians who gambled. I allowed them to gamble in Jakarta to circumvent cash fleeing the country. Do you think gambling can be legalized again? It depends on the governor. But now there's already a regulation prohibiting gambling -- though I understand that there are several places for gambling in Jakarta. A friend of mine recently told me that one of the places is as big as ones in Macau. Why does it seem that Indonesians are more interested in something in disguise? What we need is just legalization. But since there's a law (No. 7/1974 on gambling, stipulating that gambling is illegal and those involved in it are punishable by law) so many people have been nabbed. Experience proves that gamblers need official casinos or other gambling places, except in places which they know are backed by the military or police officers. Why military and police officers? Come on! This is organized. Those people don't want the regulation to be abolished. That's the way they obtain an income. There are sometimes raids, covered by the media, but that's only a ploy. When I was governor, I invited Muspida (to my office). I asked them how much money they wanted to build, say, a new office, and said I would help them. They could not decline. I was the one who held power in Jakarta at that time, not the military. I know much more about people in Jakarta than some of the others. What is your concept of good governance? Being realistic and logic. This is another example: there was a time when Soeharto urged government officials not to receive packages as Idul Fitri greetings. I objected, saying that the gifts were a real form of gratitude, which was much better than giving a percentage or something else behind closed doors. Just watch how the number of flower vendors in Cikini (Central Jakarta) has now grown (in line with the season's greetings business).

The government recently planned to terminate fuel subsidies. People strongly oppose this; after that the House of Representatives proposed to increase civil service salaries. They do not think about how to obtain the money. They have to set priorities.

How do you see the current situation in the capital's streets? What I see makes me angry. I see indiscipline. The nation's morality has decayed. Everybody thinks they are right. Drivers zigzagging, pedestrians crossing the roads anywhere they want, street vendors blocking the streets. People are reluctant to respect others. They do not have the morality to not cause problems for others.

Why has this happened? The source of it all? It's politics. It's about state governance. Due to a poor political system, we have been "downgrading". We see that the military, the supreme court, and the attorney general have become the instrument of power and money, not of the nation ... Power is so powerful. How can we reach democracy without proper legalization? We also see no serious action from the government for human rights. Some members of the press have also become instruments of power instead of democracy. The people understand this and they do not care about others. They see that everybody at the top level also does not care about many things. So people question why they should be well-behaved while many people at the top level have never been legally punished for their wrongdoings.

Can we find a way out? It would need a very long time to restore such a decayed morality. One generation is not enough. The generation of 1945 and 1966 have become rotten, as well as the younger generations. As one of the 1945 generation (which saw the first years of the nation), I'm very embarrassed. But I know I succeeded as an individual. The way out? I think (President Abdurrahman Wahid) Gus Dur and (Vice President Megawati Soekarnoputri) Mega must have two programs. First, to anticipate future problems, and second, resolving past problems. (I. Christianto)