'Without new discovery our movies will die'

The 48th San Francisco International Film Festival took place in late April/early May. The work of some Indonesian filmmakers was screened there, including that of Garin Nugroho. Shirley Surya and Oddie Octaviadi interviewed him on the sidelines of the festival.

Question: What has been the reaction so far from the audience and critics about your movie? Garin: Rindu Kami Padamu (Of Love And Eggs) is probably the most communicative film I've made. The questions that have arisen so far revolve around the techniques or methodology used in making this movie. The audience asked about the concept of using a soundstage and the storyline itself, which is saturated with the religion of Islam.

In Rotterdam, the aspect of Islam as a part of this movie's storyline was more prominent as a result of what happened to the movie maker, Theo Van Gogh (a TV movie director who was murdered because his movie showed an actress in see-through garments with Koranic script written on her body).

I was invited to give a speech at a seminar in Rotterdam on censorship. I said it's problematic because there's nothing in this world that justifies murder -- neither the war in Iraq nor the 9/11 terrorist attack.

The reasoning behind these two acts of violence cannot be fathomed by most people: Logic fails. And when logic fails, minority groups (different religious entities, subcultures, etc.) will use unorthodox means of communicating their view. And this can create conflict, especially when there's a lack of communication between existing groups.

Why Theo Van Gogh used Islamic symbolism in his movie is a subject for discussion -- not a reason for violence. Most conflicts that are going on in the world today started for no particular reason. When there's no real cause or reason then people do things without real logic or reasoning. They follow what they convinced themselves was the truth.

What kind of message do you want to convey with this movie?

One characteristic of an Islamic movie made in the past five years is the theme of gender. Second, the issue of a gap between generations of Muslims living in Europe. They depict a contrasting portrayal of first- and second-generation Muslims. The first generation is usually shown to be orthodox and to hold fast to old values. Third, there are also some movies that discuss the theme of violence. Fourth, the prevailing theme of poverty in a Muslim society. Fifth, these Islamic movies are very serious, with little room for jokes.

However, with Rindu Kami Padamu (Of Love and Eggs), I'm trying to portray a different side or face of a Muslim society. I purposely made the movie's storyline simple, filled it with jokes and I even included a sexy movie actress.

The movie faced no obstacles, even in Indonesia. Whereas other Islamic movies tend to be dogmatic and even have violent overtones, I came up with a new perspective for this genre.

What is problematic is that religiosity in most Islamic countries is dogmatic, while it should deal with everyday life. In that case, religion is either controlled by guns or by rituals. Everyday life is left unguided.

Most Indonesian movies that deal with religious themes are usually very preachy. They often show elder religious elders who are well respected and very orthodox. In this movie, the religious leader is shown to be a relaxed person who likes to joke around -- closer to what is the reality of everyday life in Indonesia.

What kind of movies would you like to make?

Movies that deal with the theme of multicultural society. The movie I made prior to this one, Aku Ingin Menciummu Sekali Saja, deals with Christianity in Papua without hiding anything. And I think it's about time a movie covered this. Even though I'm not a Christian, I still think it's an important subject to explore.

When in Papua, you experience the culture of Christianity. The same thing happens when you're in Bali -- you experience the culture of Hinduism. Indonesians need to experience these variations of culture with their eyes, ears and heart. Otherwise, the difference between ethnic customs and cultures will become fearsome.

With its many islands, ethnicities, and religions. Indonesia is like a microcosm of the world as a whole. Therefore, my films use traditional languages so that the audience can experience the many different languages of Indonesia. The pluralism of language affect many facets of movie-making -- from acting to camera angle.

Is it true that your films don't get much exposure in mainstream cinema because of the genre you choose?

Two of the seven movies I have made so far have became box office hits. They are Cinta Dalam Sepotong Roti" and Daun Di Atas Bantal. Compared with other producers, even in the case of the most commercial such as Mira (Lesmana), only 50 percent actually created box office hits. But most people tend to label me on the basis of my more artistic films such as Surat untuk Bidadari, Bulan Tertusuk Ilalang and Puisi Tak Terkuburkan, which played to only small audiences. I think that's fine because there should be both mainstream and also minority movies.

In Indonesia people tend to think that if your audience is small then your movie is a considered a failure: That's the general perception. This kind of misconception is what weakens the Indonesian cinema industry and culture. Everybody wants to create a mainstream movie.

Regarding the new crops of Indonesian movies such as Arisan and Banyu Biru: Are they indicators of what we can expect from the Indonesian cinema?

Well, one of the differences between the new Indonesian movie directors and the older generation is that they are more influenced by the Western movie industry. Meanwhile, the older generation of Indonesian movie directors were schooled by the Russian and European movie makers. So, they are more into the style of neorealism from Italy and Germany.

Today's filmmakers are mostly American movie-minded -- the so- called "Tarantinoian crop". There are also a generation of movie maker that stemmed from the entertainment industry such as TV. There are also those who graduated from local film schools, mostly in cities such as Yogyakarta, Makasar and others.

Today's movies are more about individuals while movies in the past decades dealt more with collectivism.

Today's directors live in a world where movies from all over the world are easily accessible in various formats. Today, cinema is not the golden boy of entertainment anymore. There's a lot of competition from other formats of entertainment.

In the era of digital entertainment, where the distribution of movies is very fast, it has become too easy to be heavily inspired or even copy from other people's works. It has come to the point where we even question who copies whom.

From 200 short films made in Indonesia these past years, only five films made it to the International film venue. So, quantity has risen while quality has fallen.

Take the film Mengejar Matahari by Rudi Sudjarwo -- the movie is very good artistically and technically. However, the storyline has been told before in many other Asian movies. So, the issue is not about how to make a movie but, what issue do we want to discuss in it?

Are festivals a good measure of good movies? Not always. But, for me personally, film festivals are like libraries where, if you participate, you can learn a lot.

Are there any differences for the cinema industry now that we have entered the post-Soeharto "reform" era?

In the reform era, the state of the cinema industry is actually a lot like Indonesian politics -- the sense of freedom is high while the essence of the movie itself is heading toward more generalization/mainstream. Many issues that are really interesting should be brought up in movies but are neglected.

Let me ask, how come there are no movies that deal with the many issues of Islam in Indonesia? Or about the issues that exist in areas outside of Java? How about a movie that talks about the issue of decentralization of government? Only someone like myself will actually make a movie outside of Jakarta. There are almost no political movies except for a handful of documentaries.

Is that because the movie makers want to cater to the mainstream audience?

I think that's a wrong assumption. Our audiences want to see varieties in storyline too. There's already a misconception that if a movie is not about Jakarta then it won't sell. In Thailand, people actually flocks to theaters to see a movie that depicts rural areas. We're too afraid to embrace pluralism, not just in movies but, in many other aspects of our lives.

Indonesian movies want to cater to pop culture but are not quite certain how to do it. I think pop culture is the most plural genre. It has more variations compared with other genres. Sadly, in Indonesia, our pop culture is uniform and lacks improvisation. There should be constant discovery and recovery.

Unknowingly, we are conditioned to be consumptive and not productive. Sadly, this is happening in our movie industry. If this is not remedied then our movie industry will die.