'We should give the U.S. conditional support'

Interview, Nurcholish Madjid, Jakarta

The United States has asserted that it's war on terrorism is not against Islam, yet protests against the U.S. continue. The Jakarta Post contributor Rikza Abdullah talked to Nurcholish Madjid, founder of the Paramadina Foundation in Jakarta by telephone while he was on a recent two-week visit to Washington.

Question: We've condemned the Sept. 11 terrorist attacks. But some Muslims still fear a possible military attack on Afghanistan by the U.S. What are your comments?

Answer: Based on what I see from developments (in the U.S.) it seems that the possibility of a military attack on Afghanistan is still at the rhetorical stage. They (the Americans) are apparently looking for a clearer definition of terrorism and who the terrorists are. After the attacks, world leaders, including U.S. President George W. Bush and UK Prime Minister Tony Blair, stated for the first time that there must be a clear distinction made between terrorists and Muslim society. They are apparently aware that it is impossible to brand all the one billion Muslims in the world as terrorists.

Q: You see the developments as positive?

A: Very positive. Because they had never made such a statement before the New York and Pentagon incidents. There is even a new tendency among American politicians, including senators, to protect Muslims. We must welcome such new developments.

Q: Is it true that many Muslims have experienced harassment in the U.S. after the tragedy?

A: There have been some cases of harassment but their numbers are very small. Americans feel bound to laws, so there is no hunt for Muslims here.

Q: Now that President Megawati Soekarnoputri has signed the International Convention for the Suppression of the Financing of Terrorism, should Indonesia support the U.S. if it attacks Afghanistan?

A: No. Americans themselves actually want to pinpoint and nab the suspected terrorists without having to cause trouble in Afghanistan. They are now facing difficulties in finding hard proof to show that people like Osama bin Laden are the real perpetrators of the terrorist attacks. If they can find hard evidence, they will still have to show it in their meeting with other members of the North Atlantic Treaty Organization (NATO).

If they do it properly, we should give them moral support in fighting terrorism. Terrorism is contradictory to Islam. According to Islam, even when Muslim troops are engaged in war, they are not allowed to kill women, children, old people or animals. They are not allowed to cut trees or destroy buildings.

Q: The Indonesian Ulemas Council (MUI), besides condemning the terrorist attacks, called on Muslims for a jihad should the U.S. and its allies attack Afghanistan. What are your comments?

A: Such a popular reaction is just a reflection of an uninformed solidarity. Muslims, deemed by Allah as just according to the Koran, should be fair. We must realize that not only non-Muslims have become the victims of terrorist attacks. Muslim leaders, such as former Egyptian president Anwar Sadat, have also become victims of such attacks.

Q: So what should the reaction of Muslims be?

A: We must uphold the teachings of the Koran. It says that a criminal act should be punished accordingly but patience is recommended in the search for a more peaceful solution. We should not be influenced by personal, social or historical experiences.

Muslims must be able to transcend themselves above personal sentiments, meaning that we must leave our personal, social and historical experiences behind and then try to implement the teachings of the Koran and Prophet Muhammad.

Q: How do you view the protests against the planned U.S. attacks on Afghanistan?

A: They could be counterproductive. It is also against the teachings of the Koran, which says: Do not exceed the restrictions of your religion. That is only possible if they are careful in following the Koran ...

Q: Acts of terrorism have also occurred here. Can we learn from America's experience?

A: Indonesia should ... uphold justice. Terrorism in stems from the injustice introduced by the Soeharto regime ... Indonesians, overwhelmed with corruption cases, have become morally bankrupt. We can therefore see that during this economic crisis, when tens of millions of people are living under the poverty line, exhibitors have been able to sell a large number of luxury cars.

We must hold up justice, which is equivalent to peace.