War against terrorism: The Malaysian experience

Malaysia's Institute of Strategic and International Studies (ISIS) last week invited a group of senior journalists and CEOs from all over the world including The Jakarta Post's Veeramalla Anjaiah to visit Malaysia as part of the "Malaysia International Visitors' Programme". The group met with Malaysian Prime Minister Mahathir Mohamad on Monday at his office in Putra Jaya. The following are some of the highlights of the meeting.

Do you think the present level of bilateral relations between Malaysia and Indonesia is good enough or is there any scope for further improvement?

There is always scope for improvement. We will work together (at the macro level). We are neighbors and the people are of the same race, speak the same language.

If anything happens to Indonesia, obviously we would have to bear the burnt of it. The people would come to Malaysia to look for work etc. So, if we can work closely together with Indonesia then we might be able to help each other develop and grow, and reduce our problems.

In Manila recently, one American official has said Southeast Asia is committed to fight against terrorism, but not competent enough to fight against terrorism. What is your comment?

Well, they (the Americans) feel that we are not competent. We feel we are competent. But we can always improve which is why we accept the training program that they want to have in Malaysia not from the interest of Malaysia but the others. ... It is worthwhile to have it and to try and exchange information.

Malaysia has scrupulously kept its neutrality for many years. Now we see that the regional center for coping with terrorism will be setup in Malaysia. And the U.S. presumably will play a quite important role in that process. How would you assure that this doesn't in any way compromise the neutrality of Malaysia?

Malaysia is always neutral. We support the fight against terrorism. But we disagree on the way it is being fought. And we say loudly and clearly that we don't agree with the attack on Afghanistan. We will not agree with the attack on Iraq. We think that the UN should be consulted. That is our view.

We have seen the rise of Muslim extremism all over the world. Most of the Muslim countries are finding it very difficult to cope with this rise of extremist rage. People also look at you... as a master of containing these elements within your country. How have you been able to do it? How can the Muslim world learn from the 'Malaysian experience'?

To deal with any problem (on terrorism), we have to know the root of the cause. With terrorism today, we must know why is there terrorism (of a big scale) in this world.

All these things happen when the state of Israel was adopted on Palestinian land. It is a territorial problem. Not a religious problem. The Western powers took the land belonging to the Palestinians and gave it to the Israelis and expelled the Palestinians. This led to the Palestinian militancy, which the West alleged as terrorist activity.

In Malaysia, we had a problem with the disparity with the Malaysian Chinese that caused the racial riots in 1969. So we introduced the new economic policy ... to overcome the disparity.

In 1948, we had to deal with the violent communist movement. By addressing the grievances of the communist guerrillas, who were mostly Chinese without citizenship and land, we were able to crush the movement.

And today, Malays and Chinese live, work and play together. No problem. If there is any lesson from this it is that we should try to understand the reasons ... and attend.

There has been a rise of Muslim polity within the Muslim democratic countries like the recent victory of the AKP in Turkey and so on. You have also been able to contain the parties that always profess to an alleged extremist brand of Islam. How have you been able to contain those elements in Malaysia?

Actually we look at the (Turkish) example. Turkey declared itself a secular state. Because Mustafa Kamal felt that the failure or the defeat of Turkey was due to Islam and the Turks couldn't be modernized and ...they lost to the British and the French (forces).

Kamal thought the solution to the problem was to make Turkey a secular country. In other words, he rejected Islam. That was wrong. It was not Islam. It was the Sultan who didn't practice the proper teachings of Islam.

We believe that a Muslim state can be modern, progressive, and liberal. We tell (the Malaysian )Islamic party, which tries to make use of Islam, that Islam is good but their version of Islam is wrong.

They want to be what you call very, very Islamic in an outward form. But they don't really understand Islam. If you go to the fundamentals of Islam, we call ourselves fundamentalists, we should become a very great nation in the first place. We're supposed to be brothers. They don't regard us as brothers. They condemn me as being an infidel, kafir. You see ... It is already going against the Islam.

So we argue with them on the basis of the religion. We tell them that their interpretation is wrong. They have a tendency to condemn us and others as unIslamic (when we disagree with their interpretation).

Recently, the Malaysian high court released one of the more than 70 suspected militants on the grounds that the police didn't have enough evidence to detain him under the ISA (Internal Security Act). The police rearrested the man last Saturday. Do you think the government is going to tighten the ISA after this case?

Yes. I think we have a need to. You see the judiciary has got its own ideas. And they feel that they don't like certain laws that are harsh. You would see that the judiciary is not happy with the law and wants to negate the law. And that is wrong. Because the law is very specific. The minister is empowered to detain and it should not be questioned in a court of law. These are security matters. As you can see even in America now people are being detained as a matter of prevention.

What will be the most important decision that you would like to take before you step down?

As Malaysia is a multiracial country, one of the problems is that there is always a tendency for the racists to clash against Islam. So there is one thing, I would like to ask the incoming government to attend to any signs of racial conflicts.

Your contribution to modern Malaysia is enormous. So how do you visualize Malaysia without Mahathir?

(Laughingly replied): I don't want to make myself a deity. People who are going to continue are people I have worked with and they know me. They have worked with me. So, I don't think there is a problem.