U.S. has stake in Indonesia's reform

U.S. has stake in Indonesia's reform

The Jakarta Post, Jakarta

U.S. Deputy Secretary of Defense Paul Wolfowitz was in
Singapore to attend the Asia Security Conference, organized by
the International Institute for Strategic Studies, last week.
During an interview to the Associated Press and Reuters he talked
at length about how he sees Indonesia's role in the fight against
terrorism and the ongoing political reforms in the Indonesian
Military.

Following is an excerpt of the interview, courtesy of the U.S.
Embassy in Jakarta:

Question: Are you satisfied with the way Indonesia is tackling the
fight against terrorism?

Answer: One of the things I really was trying to get across
to this audience is to get those people who are not experts on
Indonesia to appreciate the importance of Indonesia's moderate
traditions of Islam as a potential example for the whole Muslim
world. The Indonesians are kind of modest about themselves and
don't go around blowing their own horn a lot.

That probably goes along with having a tolerant attitude and
not a preachy attitude but I think it's a story that needs to get
out more for two reasons.

First, for those non-Muslims who think of all Muslims as being
fanatics, it's an eye opener to see how different the
overwhelming majority of Indonesian Muslims are from that fanatic
lineage. But secondly, more importantly for Muslims who may be
tempted by the idea that the road to vindication is the road
mapped by al Qaeda. Does he know that the largest Muslim
population of any country in the world is a group of people
really have a very very different toward religion, toward non-
Muslims, toward women.

One reason why I believe the U.S. and other advanced countries
have a big interest in seeing Indonesian democracy succeed and
Indonesian economy start to grow again is that they have the
world's largest Muslim population .. be a success story when it
embodies those values of tolerance and openness and acceptance of
an important role for women.

All of those -- it's nice to have Muslims think of those as
qualities that are associated with success, so we should have an
interest in seeing Indonesia succeed for that reason.

Q: Have you actually seen any progress in the reform of the
Indonesian Military?

A: Some progress. There's no question there needs to be more. The
conviction of the killer of the New Zealand peacekeeper was a
good step. The increased sentences that were given to the Atambua
killers is a good step. The trials that are on-going now are a
good step although some appropriate concerns have been raised
about whether the display of senior generals at the opening trial
was an attempt to intimidate the result. I hope it's not. But, if
slowly, I believe they are taking our concerns seriously. I do
think there's a lot more to be done.

I also believe that it's time for us to make good on some of
our willingness to help them move forward, not just keep
criticizing and keep using the sticks. Moreover, I'd like to
figure out ways in which we wouldn't always use as the means of
expressing displeasure: Isolating the Indonesian military from
contact with the West or the U.S. I know not every story of
military education is a success story, but on the whole I think
experience really does show that those officers who have had real
contact with the U.S. are much more open in their outlook, much
more accepting of the civilian control, much more supportive of
democracy.

Q: What's preventing you from reestablishing the military
ties? Is it purely Congress? Or are there -- other issues?

A: It's not purely Congress. We share a view with the Congress
and with large elements of Indonesian civil society that for
democracy to succeed in Indonesia the military has to be
reformed. You can't have a successful democracy with a military
that abuses its people. And the accountability for some of those
crimes that were committed during the pre-democratic era is part
of that military reform.

On the other hand, possibly you can't have a successful
democracy in a country like Indonesia if you don't have military
or security forces which includes the military police as well
that can deal with the serious outbreaks of communal violence
that produce refugees, produce opportunities for terrorists to
burrow in. Moreover the military's an important institution. It's
important for Megawati who is quite extraordinary democratically
elected president to have the support of that key institution.

You have to balance all of those considerations and not just
focus entirely on some horrendous things that were done a few
years ago under the previous government, not under this
democratic government. But we don't want to just wipe the slate
clean and forget about how we go forward.

Q: Do you share with the view that Indonesia is a weak link in
the regional campaign against international terrorism?

A: I certainly wouldn't use that term. It is a critical country
in this respect. It's a critical country in just its huge size,
and if Indonesia were to go bad it would be spectacularly bad. I
also believe that if Indonesia succeeds, it can be a very
important model for the rest of the Muslim world. The truth is I
don't believe we've detected or are aware of anything in
Indonesia of the scale for example, of the plot that was
uncovered in Singapore where al Qaeda people were planning a kind
of repeat of the USS Cole attack in Yemen.

The problems in Indonesia are much more internally directed;
Laskar Jihad which is not an international terrorist organization
but is responsible for some serious incidents of communal
violence, and on that score the Indonesian government has
arrested the head of Laskar Jihad. Each of these countries has
very different circumstances and very different governments.
Indonesia is a wide open democracy which is another factor that
has to be taken into account.

Generally speaking a good factor, but as we know in our own
country it means that civil liberties issues come up when you
deal with these things.

FBI director Muller was there a month or two ago and expressed
satisfaction of the progress they (Indonesia) were making then
and I believe there has been more since then.

Q: Have you found evidence any international terrorism operations
emanating from Indonesia?

A: There are suspicions about one or two individuals, and there
are suspicions that there may be other people whom we don't know
about, but you know of course that's true of Germany and the U.S.
We're pretty sure there are people in the U.S. that we don't know
about. That's why the real issue isn't quite as much as are there
people there who need to be arrested as our Indonesian law
enforcement people doing, as much as they can to gather
information, to gather evidence, to develop that picture. We're
working to improve ourselves. The Indonesians are coming along
and the co-operation is really very good. Both with the FBI and
the CIA.