'This is not poverty, but a process of impoverishment'

'This is not poverty, but a process of impoverishment'

In recent weeks, there has been much talk about efforts to
eradicate poverty. The Jakarta Post's Hera Diani
talked to H.S. Dillon, executive director of the Partnership for
Governance Reform in Indonesia, about poverty eradication and the
effectiveness of running programs.

Question: There have been so many poverty eradication
programs, but few seem to work.

Answer: We have the G-8 (Group of Eight) wealthy nations, the
United Nations Millennium Development Goals (MDGs). They are very
good statements of intent, but without the real means required to
achieve them.

We have to realize that this is not poverty, but
impoverishment. Because, as you realize, hunger and serial
malnutrition occur among people who are actually involved in the
production of food. So something must be very wrong.

You have to begin by establishing governance at various
levels. The most important thing in our case, however, is access
to productive resources.

What you see now, with MDGs, the World Bank (etcetera) is the
conservative or the pro-status-quo discussion of what needs to be
done. There's talk about empowerment and access to service ...
but there's no talk about political economy -- on who has the
power -- nor are there plans to redistribute assets.

The essence is that you have to really arrest and then reverse
the cause of impoverishment.

Aside from land, access to productivity and the quality of
credit is important, not just the interest rate, but the quality.
It's tragic that in Indonesia, the conglomerates are those who
have no money but were given so much money by the state banks.

While the poor, every year, Bank Rakyat Indonesia mobilizes --
maybe more now -- around Rp 30 trillion for various saving
schemes. But only Rp 10 trillion is reinvested into agriculture.

It means, directly, they have extracted half of the bank
power, half of the value generated by agriculture. And then Rp 10
trillion does not go to the small farmers or the labors, it goes
to the conglomerates again.

Technology is also a very important ingredient. Not just an
instrument, or machinery, but an organizational (tool). How do
people get to work, organize themselves -- how are their demands
met?

The current problem is, the President is committed, but not
supported by the government. And he has no political capacity, he
cannot push that through.

What breakthroughs are needed?

How you really arrest and reverse the process of
impoverishment. Poverty is not just an event, or phenomena, but a
process.

I don't see a very clear vision from the government itself.
Based on my paradigm, (poverty eradication programs) should be
people-driven: All the policies formulated, all the institutions
established, all the technologies developed and transferred have
to be driven by the needs and capacities of the people.

Poor people have the capacity, actually. You just develop a
ladder, and with their own capacity and strength, they will climb
that ladder.

And how do we do that?

First, conception -- not birth -- should be controlled.
Because no matter how good your resources and government may be,
if you have too many people vying for the same resources, you
have less to distribute.

Second, adequate food and nutrition. In the process of
generating enough food, the income of farmers and laborers will
increase and they will be able to buy food.

Third, an education system that addresses local needs. At each
junction of their education, students must be able to cari makan
(make a living). We have to change the whole mentality of cari
kerja (looking for a job). In the process of cari makan, you can
create jobs.

For poor parents, children have economic value and school only
removes that value. You have to compensate them. Like in Brazil,
the government pays parents when their children perform well. And
it works in keeping children in school.

In coastal villages, you have to come with an agreement with
local schools so that children do not have to go six days a week.
Compress the curriculum into just one-and-a-half months instead
of six months. Distribute waterproof books so that children can
still read while out at sea.

Education must also allow students to interact with mother
nature, so they will grow up with an awareness of environmental
conservation, which requires self interest.

In regards to Presidential Regulation No. 36/2005 on land
(which allows the government to seize land for public development
projects), should the government revoke it?

The regulation looks good on paper but it creates
opportunities for abuse in its implementation. You have to really
define what you are building in the public interest. If it is for
a road, okay, but not a mall.

What the President has to do is to change his goals. He is a
very good man, but he has to realize that people trust him, but
not his government. He listens too much to political parties,
which comes as a shock to me because none of those parties
supported him in the first place.

He has gained the trust of the people, of the international
community ... He has to have goals of his own so that he can
transpose the trust in him into trust for the government.

Pick officials from politicians who have shown their interest
in the people, not the ones who were referred by political
parties.

People think the poor and uneducated are foolish. What they
fail to realize is that poor people can distinguish between what
is right and what is wrong. That's why (former president)
Megawati Soekarnoputri failed because she could not deliver.
Therefore you have to win the trust.