RI-Australia ties: Are we emotionally mature?

Bilateral relations between Indonesia and Australia are again heating up after raids on Indonesian residents in the neighboring country. Former Indonesian ambassador to Australia Wiryono Sastrohandoyo talks to The Jakarta Post's Muhammad Nafik and Emmy Fitri about this issue.

Question: Will the current situation in Indonesia-Australian relations subside?

Answer: Terrorism is the enemy of every country. Recently, we had a conference co-chaired by Indonesia and Australia on transnational crimes, in particular addressing the issue of illegal migrants. The two countries have shown that they can work together, so the current terrorism issue should not cause friction and instead, should be a challenge for the two nations.

The reason the terrorism issue has become the cause of slander, condemnation and hatred, is a matter of communication. People communicate through both rational and emotional modes of communication; the first uses our heads, the second comes from our hearts. Tone, diction and expression are all important in good communication, and we need people with strong abilities in cross cultural communication to deal with this issue.

Could you please give an example?

The way they (the Australian intelligence) raided the houses of Indonesians there. Was it necessary for them to wear masks and black uniforms, brandish handguns and then smash doors and chairs like in action movies? Such an incident will raise reactions here because these raids are perceived to be overreactions, overkill or an excessive invasion of privacy.

Indonesians must still remember how Australia reacted when violence broke out in East Timor. They reacted adversely to the situation and criticized Indonesia. I don't see any healthy communication between our government and its Australian counterpart, or it could be that communication between our countries is at a low.

So do you think such raids are acceptable?

As the Minister of Foreign Affairs Hassan Wirayuda said, any government has the right to launch an investigation into suspicious activities which may pose a danger. That's normal.

It seems there has always been a love-hate relationship between Australia and Indonesia. How can we find ways to improve relations?

Diplomacy is not exclusive to diplomats, and the media should play their part, too, because you provide information and shape perceptions. The government must often respond to these perceptions, so in some ways, policy is media-driven. If I were a state official, what I say in response to a journalist's question can then become policy.

Back to the communication gap. We have shown our sensitivity toward Australia after the Bali bombing, when many of our leaders paid courtesy visits to the Australian Embassy here to deliver our condolences and sympathy, which was a good gesture.

Some people, including our own party leaders, regarded Australian Prime Minister John Howard's visit to Bali as too much, that he was overreacting. However, his visit was quite normal because a head of state should make a showing when so many of your citizens have been killed, similar to when illegal Indonesian workers were shipped back from Malaysia.

Many also disliked what happened when President Megawati Soekarnoputri did not make a clear statement of her concerns, because we expected her to do so. Those who make emotional comments on Howard's visit are not really addressing the issue, and are only playing up to the public. The media should also learn the psychology of these kinds of people.

How do you see the future situation?

Again, diplomacy is not exclusive to diplomats. The relations between people, students, tourists and journalists of both countries must be intensified through healthy communication because we are destined to be neighbors. We can't relocate Indonesia, and we will be here permanently unless there's a massive earthquake and Australia is pushed away somewhere. As God has determined that we be neighbors, Indonesians and Australians must get to know each other better in an effort to build stronger ties.

How do we achieve this?

With more interaction.

Many Indonesians study in Australia, about 18,000 people, but that's out of a population of 200 million. Many Australian students study in Indonesia, too. Several Australian universities have even created courses of study on Indonesia, for example at ANU (Australia National University).

Following the Bali bombing, Australian students who were studying at Gadjah Mada University should not have left Indonesia because they are the people who should maintain relations between our two countries.

In your opinion, which country generates more problems?

There is no need to look into the factors that cause the friction because we must realize that Indonesia and Australia are complementary. Australia is an advanced country, so we need them. If you check the trade figures, our exports to Australia are increasing because our goods are cheap for Australian consumers, with our inflation and rupiah depreciation.

Businesspeople don't care about political bickering, and although investment is not on the rise, it's not on the wane, either, and remains steady.

Money is the biggest coward. It will remain in a safe location and will easily depart from a disturbed one. Why has 80 percent of investment gone to China instead of to ASEAN countries? It is because many investors consider ASEAN countries to have no guarantee of security.

Indonesia is a country that has progressed from an authoritarian to a democratic state, but it's not enough just to have general elections. The way the executive and the legislative bodies interact and cooperate is also important, but they are fighting each other instead of sitting down to develop laws to build the country. What was that comment by U.S. Ambassador Ralph Boyce: "Yes, we are supporting Indonesians but we're waiting until the reform measures have been implemented."

Upon hearing this comment, many people got mad and then made a big fuss out of it, when actually it is only to be expected. Indonesians must be mature in the way they think and adjust their attitudes from the spirit of centralization to one of decentralization.

Is it because we are too sensitive?

We are sometimes too emotional and we need to show our maturity. There are many kinds of people here, from level-headed people to high-tempered and emotional ones.

If there is a problem, then fix it. International relations is becoming more complex because it no longer involves only state players, but also non-state players. And you people of the media have an important role to play in this.

As a nation we need Australia. In the 1945-1950 period when young Indonesians were attacked by the Dutch, the UN set up a three-member commission, comprising of the United States, Belgium and Australia. It's us Indonesians who chose Australia. We could have picked India because it supported our independence, or the Philippines, but we didn't. Why? Because we trusted Australia.

We wanted a Western country and Australia, which was still reigned by the white Australian policy, was a suitable choice. We trusted Australia and there was never any prejudice between the two countries at that time.

When Bung Karno (founding president Sukarno) was arrested by the Dutch colonial government, the person who alerted the UN was Australian diplomat Tom Critchley. His (letter) prompted the UN Security Council to hold a meeting during which they condemned the arrest and ordered the Dutch to leave Indonesian territory. We owe Australia for that, and the event should have been written in gold in our history books. Do not generalize things, but try to look at valuable historical insights.

How does historical insight fit today's context?

It is the differences in culture, political style, history and economic level that widens the gaps between the two countries. Again, history tells that it was Australia who came up with the Colombo Plan to help Indonesian students to study abroad. In the Sukarno era, only 50 people graduated from university from a total of 70 million to 80 million people. After Sukarno's fall, there were still less than 200 university graduates and in Soeharto's era, there were five million to six million university graduates.

For improvements in the economy, education and technology, Indonesia needs Australia. For Australia, geopolitically located south of Indonesian territory, our country is equally important to them.

(Australia) has never seen wars before, even though it has sent its soldiers to many wars. They only experienced minor air raids in Perth and Darwin during World War II. Their White Paper Defense Document says that threats to Australia come through and from the North. "Through" means from Japan or China through Indonesia, and "from" is obviously Indonesia.

During Paul Keating's Labour Party administration, Keating stated that no relationship was more important than Australia's ties with Indonesia, but this has changed under Howard, who does not rank bilateral relations by order of importance. He does, however, mention four countries with which Australia has to improve relations in particular. They are the U.S., Japan, China and Indonesia. His orientation is different from Keating.

What's important right now is how Indonesia and Australia can manage the relationship in a cooperative manner.

Is interaction hindered by our weakening diplomatic capacity or is it due to internal conditions in our respective countries?

Diplomacy surely needs leadership, but how do you co-manage the relations? You need champions for that, champions we don't have. It used to be Keating and Soeharto or Garret Evans and Alatas. However, internal situations in our respective countries are also contributing factors.