Overcoming the crisis: Coming to terms with modernity

German Muslim scholar Bassam Tibi, a professor of international relations at the University of Gottingen, has said Indonesia could be a model democratic Muslim nation, a theory he elaborates in a number of books, such as The Challenge of Fundamentalism.

The following is an excerpt of an interview with The Jakarta Post's Ati Nurbaiti on changes in the country. The professor was a speaker at the international seminar on Islam and the West held at the Center for Languages and Cultures at Jakarta's Syarif Hidayatullah State Islamic University (UIN). Can Indonesia still be a model of a democratic Muslim nation following the various crises that the country has gone through? What about what many see as the rise of radicalism?

I am worried that it is changing for the worse. It is not only radicalism ... being radical is not simply being a scripturalist. In a situation of crisis, any crisis, (people) become scripturalists. Indonesia seems to be disintegrating and I hope that will stop.

You have a consensus ... (the state ideology) Pancasila, but many here view it as no longer important. It is a contract among Indonesians to commit themselves to the five principles, which stress pluralism. (He had said to the audience earlier, regarding the principle of the belief in one God, "In Pancasila I find world religions being placed on an equal footing"). That is important.

Gus Dur (former president Abdurrahman Wahid) knows the scripture well but is not a scripturalist. I am afraid people here who approach Islam like he does are being lost.

Indonesia could be a model democratic Muslim nation for two reasons: Cultural, because the Islam developed here is open- minded, nonscripturalist and tolerant; and economic -- the economy was fairly successful before the crisis. It is still better than Algeria or Egypt, though Malaysia is even better (economically) and hopefully things will change.

Some may consider Pancasila no longer important because it was used in the past as a tool of repression.

Anyone can abuse anything. But there is no alternative (for Indonesians); political Islam (politicization of Islam) would be a setback. What is most important is inner peace, a consensus of inner peace. Saying that Muslims who adopt the adat, the customs, are not real Muslims is provocative. But "modernist" Muslims here may say that a return to a literal interpretation of the Koran is crucial, given that many here combine Islam with traditional beliefs. Your comment?

There are various interpretations of "modernist" Islam: it could mean returning to (a literal interpretation of) the Koran; or it might be how to rethink Islam with modernity, how to place Islam in harmony with democracy and human rights.

Renewing Islam in a dogmatic way is not what we need. But it is simpler and clearer for many Muslims to go by a literal interpretation of the Koran.

(A literal interpretation) closes many doors, while we have to come to terms with globalization; it places you in a ghetto. It would be to the detriment of Islam and Muslims if Muslims put themselves in a ghetto. We need to go beyond the scripture. I don't always go back to the book to see (for instance) how to carry on relations with others ... So was it mainly the economic crisis that led to (what you say might be) a change for the worse in Indonesia?

Not only an economic crisis, but a cultural one too. It is not necessary to impose modernity. Make it easy for Muslims to embrace modernity. Unless Muslims come to terms with modernity the crisis will not be overcome. What Islamic countries have you visited recently?

The Arab countries, Egypt and Jordan; also India, Pakistan and Malaysia. In Africa in the 1980s the issue was similar to Indonesia now as there were fundamentalists, while many there were not fundamentalists. In Malaysia two years ago I met Malaysian Muslims from America who were fundamentalists and I spoke of an Islam that is open-minded. I was embraced by some nonconservative Muslims there who said that their understanding of Islam was not accepted (in that community) ...