One or two generations needed to rid Indonesia of New Order

Ahmad Suhelmi, a political lecturer at the University of Indonesia, said Abdurrahman "Gus Dur" Wahid's supporters campaigning for the dissolution of Golkar ran the risk of undermining the President's legitimacy. He said in an interview with The Jakarta Post that the New Order regime should not be blamed for all the country's social and political ills.

Question: Thousands of students on Friday attacked the Golkar Party's chapter in Jakarta. What do you think of the current campaign against Golkar?

Answer: I think this lashing out against Golkar is more of a counter-campaign by President Abdurrahman Wahid's supporters to balance out the opposition groups' demand that he resign. This new campaign against members of the New Order regime and the Golkar Party is a bit strange as Golkar was among the first factions to support Gus Dur in the presidential election. If they say the Golkar Party is not legitimate, they must also question Gus Dur's legitimacy.

Secondly, whether we like it, Golkar had the second most number of votes in the (1999) general election and it has a considerable number of supporters and political constituents. Those who are against Golkar should really consider these two facts.

Even Gus Dur was once a People's Consultative Assembly (MPR) member representing Golkar. So, isn't it absurd for them to demand Golkar's dissolution as it would mean deflating Gus Dur's legitimacy.

This campaign against the Golkar Party would not have taken place had it not committed all those political sins in the past, don't you think?

The New Order regime indeed committed many mistakes. But who committed those wrongdoings? Was it only Soeharto? Let's be honest. Many people, including Gus Dur, were involved in the New Order regime. Those who are now condemning the New Order were once part of the regime.

Who among us is really free from the New Order? We may need one or two generations to pass before the country is free from the New Order.

What was the New Order exactly?

Historically, it was a correction to the Old Order. But we know it was not because history has shown that the New Order was the same as the order that it replaced. They were both authoritarian regimes. Sukarno's fall from power failed to bring any positive changes in our politics because Soeharto later created a very militaristic regime.

By definition, the New Order was a political system with a developmental ideology which tended to be repressive. Soeharto was repressive because, historically, excessive political freedom leads to anarchy. So we cannot say the New Order was entirely to blame.

Many identify the New Order with amoral political behavior. What do you think?

That's understandable because corrupt practices and a host of other irregularities ran rampant during the New Order. It was under the New Order that Indonesia became known as the world's most corrupt country.

The other characteristics of the regime were excessive control by the intelligence, and a centralized power which killed the other forces such as higher state institutions, the community and the press.

Now that you have explained what the New Order was, can you name who were part of it?

That would be confusing because many people who are condemning the New Order are former "New Order people". We need to see objectively that this campaign against the New Order by means of dissolving Golkar will not resolve all the problems.

But many former New Order political players have changed their "appearance" and become reformists. Can we still see them as the henchmen of the New Order?

Their number is large. But still we cannot be judging people in such a black or white manner.

What about the mistakes committed in the past? Should we still pursue them?

I think we need to first demand accountability from the New Order elite, especially in the military. For instance, those involved in the Tanjung Priok incident (the massacre of a number of Muslims). The New Order's mistake was prosecuting only the small fry (in cases of rights violations). This is what is happening with the current administration as well.

Those who committed wrongdoings in the New Order regime must be prosecuted. People like Soeharto or Tommy must be firmly, albeit legally, dealt with.

The question is, who is going to do this because the current administration of Gus Dur is also filled with corrupt people. As (People's Consultative Assembly speaker) Amien Rais said, Soeharto needed about 30 years to cultivate a corrupt administration, but Gus Dur only took a few months to do the same thing.

We cannot judge people if we are not clean ourselves.

What do you think the nation will face politically in the immediate future?

I can't say for sure, because I think we are trapped in a vicious circle that we can't get out of. As Emile Durkheim said once, we are in a state of anomie, where old values have faded but new values have yet to develop.

My guess, however, is that this situation will run its course naturally, just like a pendulum. A fallen regime is usually condemned by the new regime. When the new regime collapses, it too will be condemned by the succeeding regime. (Deka Kurniawan)