New government must tackle roots of restlessness

New government must tackle roots of restlessness

With the presidential and vice presidential elections
completed, the country enters a new phase amid much societal
friction. After meeting with President Abdurrahman Wahid,
popularly known as Gus Dur, influential Muslim scholar and poet
Mustofa Bisri, a leader of Nahdlatul Ulama (NU) and the National
Awakening Party (PKB), discussed the country's future with The
Jakarta Post. The following are excerpts from the interview.

Question: What do you see as the priorities of President
Abdurrahman Wahid?

Answer: Quieting things down; making everyone feel looked after.
All the things contributing to the restlessness must be handled,
like corruption, collusion and nepotism -- which has long been
the demand of the people.

But the most urgent thing for all of us in the near future is
the creation of a conducive climate to let the government carry
out its mandate as stipulated in the State Policy Guidelines.

There is still friction within the Muslim community, and we
are still dependent on old forces like Golkar. How does the much
cited need to empower civil society fare in such a situation?

(Those causing such polarizations) are just the elite.
Ordinary people know precisely which of the elite have been
inconsistent in their speech and actions -- people's emotions are
also raised and this is an emotional time. Leaders must seriously
pay attention to current emotions ... There are always some
people who keep fanning the flames and the press sometimes plays
a part in this. This is childish politics, using religious
beliefs.

Your party preaches inclusiveness. Is the country ready for
such a platform?

No one among us is really prepared for democracy. We have
never been educated about accepting differences. We've been
raised for decades to be uniform and this, of course, makes
democracy difficult. We have yet to learn how to practice
civilized politics.

So how should the country go about empowering civil society?

We have been shouting about reform while neglecting to reform
ourselves. Much of our behavior is just the same as our inability
to accept differences and our insistence on protecting group
interests; these are all old diseases. We need a mental
revolution .... Most of our role models teach us corruption, how
to love material things too much and that's what we absorb. We
have too few role models for noble values and such values have
become marginalized.

What does Abdurrahman's presidency mean to NU?

As we earlier stated, NU's inseparable commitments are to
uphold democracy, while maintaining the welfare of the nation.
Power is only a way to reach this aim. NU's guidelines clearly
state this. From its birth (in 1926), NU has always wanted to
actively join others in the nation in the struggle for freedom.
Gus Dur's efforts, including becoming President, are seen as part
of this framework, and it contains great risks. It would not mean
anything if it was not within the above framework.

None of (the leaders) of NU have congratulated Gus Dur.
Congratulations are when you get a gift. All of us say, "May God
give you strength" to carry out this heavy mandate. NU feels this
burden too and there will be many mass prayers. NU members and
PKB may feel proud (of Gus Dur being president), but not the kyai
(religious leaders/teachers).

Is there the possibility of you becoming a minister in
Abdurrahman's Cabinet?

I told Gus Dur this morning that he should select people based
on merit. Don't pick someone just because he's a kyai from NU and
then ask him to build bridges ....

The 'reformist' and 'status quo' camps have now become
blurred ...

However far someone has deviated, nothing is final ... people
can change to become better or worse. I think reform means
focusing more on the system which has led to bad behavior. What,
for instance, causes corruption? If the system or rules allow
corruption it will continue, even if you replace the individuals.
We should do discard our prejudices .... We quickly label
individuals as being just like Soeharto, for example, just
because they were his former assistants. People can repent, but
the problem is we have not carried out the demands of reform; to
thoroughly investigate charges of corruption, collusion and
nepotism (KKK).

So we can't say for sure what role so-and-so played under a
corrupt government. With an investigation and clean courts we
would know how a person was involved.

This is what causes the current blur -- because investigations
of KKN have not been carried out.

Would this mean prosecuting such cases in court rather than
simply forgiving them would be part of the reconciliation effort?

Of course, or else there would be no clarity on what to
forgive if people asked for forgiveness.

The Indonesian Military (TNI) has said the public should not
continue to make demands of them because they are reforming
themselves. What do you think?

We should place our trust in their good intentions. TNI used
to be a tool of the rulers and they have said this will not be
the case anymore. But we will also ask for evidence so people
will believe their words.

The reason for (B.J.) Habibie's fall was because of the lack
of evidence to prove his statement of being a reformist.

Despite TNI Commander Gen. Wiranto's expressed reluctance to
run for vice president, he was nominated by civilians who feared
Megawati Soekarnoputri would be unable to complement an ailing
President.

The country is not owned by the president alone like in the
past; the president can be reprimanded any time. We tend to
forget that everyone has responsibilities ... in accordance to
one's skills.

You sound optimistic about the future.

Yes, the People's Consultative Assembly will convene once a
year and the House of Representatives is not what it used to be.
We can hope for continued control.

With Abdurrahman as President, who will likely replace him as
NU chairman at NU's congress next month?

We have lots of good people, but in the tradition of NU nobody
will volunteer himself for the position ... What is important is
what NU wants to do in the future. All this time we have been
doing things backwards, focusing on the figure instead of the
task assigned to him.

This is part of the culture which depends on a figure; that's
why Soeharto stayed around so long. Once there's a top figure,
you can't see the others.

What is wrong with having a charismatic figure as a leader?
Won't he be helped by the NU's executive and law-making board?

What is charisma? It's not like a peci (traditional cap),
making anyone who wears it charismatic. It's built on wisdom,
knowledge, experience ... It's of no use if the task assigned
does not match the skills of the person.

Would you say friction among Muslims will take a long time to
resolve, given the diversity of Islam here?

If people are willing to study their religion deeper, I'm not
worried. If you and I had different perceptions there would be no
friction, knowing we had the same level of knowledge. The problem
is when people think they have mastered their religion and are no
longer willing to study it, while they have to become leaders ...
then when they use religious symbols, their perceptions filter
down to their followers.

The same thing applies to Catholics, Christians ... where
believers do not thoroughly understand their religion and use
religious symbols, this always leads to problems.

Problems are also caused here by the highly spirited stance of
people wanting to be religious without having a strong knowledge
of religion ....

The elections, in which NU members became involved in
conflicts, are past, but it seems that emotions are still easy to
flare.

If members and leaders carefully read the principles of NU, it
is stated clearly how members should act as individuals, as
groups ... it calls for tolerance in relations with one another
and with people of different creeds. Those who understand this
would not be raising the idea of "us versus them" .... (These
principles can be forgotten) when political interests get in the
way ....(anr)