Juwono speaks on Maluku tragedy

Juwono speaks on Maluku tragedy

The military has been censured for its inability to stop the
violence in the Maluku islands. Minister of Defense Juwono
Sudarsono candidly spoke to The Jakarta Post's reporter Fabiola
Desy Unidjadja about this and the political situation as a whole.

Question: In the consultation meeting (with the House of
Representatives) on the Maluku issue, you said there were demands
for legal action against certain Army personnel in the province.
Is there any proof of their involvement in the violence?

Answer: From the beginning there were soldiers stationed there
who, maybe because of their innate sympathies, began to take
sides. And, according to local legislators, there were
uncontrollable factors, or possible even an intention on the part
of the Army as an institution, which allowed the clashes go on.

Now there are 17 battalions from the Army, two from the police
and some marine units. Police and marines are no problem there.

There are some, or even many, members of the Army, according
to information gathered from both of the warring camps, who have
become a major cause of the clashes.

Q: Are you saying these soldiers provoked or helped the clashes
spread?

A: In facilitating. For example, there was a container loaded
with firearms entering the area. They did nothing about it, they
let it enter.

Q: Are there high-ranking officers masterminding all this?

A: That's it. They regret the military replacing Max Tamaela (who
served as Pattimura Military Commander till June), but at the
same time promoting him.

They question how much control Army Headquarters has, how
effective the Army command structure is in Maluku?

There are some local Maluku legislators who claim that they
(the officers) are a cancer and the source of their financing
should be investigated.

There are also indications that they are associated with
former president Soeharto and B.J. Habibie's cronies.

Q: Are you sure these Army officers are linked to Soeharto and
Habibie?

A: Both civilians and Army officers. We are still investigating
it, but still haven't found enough concrete evidence.

However, we should differentiate between the Army as an
institution, medium-sized units, and small units.

Let's just describe the problem as one involving certain Army
personnel, because although the command structure and commanders
have changed, there are many from the ancient regime still
filling lower positions.

The army should get rid of these soldiers.

The key question is who provides the money, who sends the
guns? They must have strong financial support.

There must be financial support from Jakarta, that's why we
have to cut-off the links with this cancer. There are very strong
indications but they are hard to verify.

Q: How are you going to prevent this from happening again?

A: The Ministry of Defense is not directly in charge of the chain
of command. I cannot order them around...both the minister of
defense and the military chiefs are subordinates of the
President. We are equals.

All I can give is advice and policy inputs to rehabilitate the
entire Army.

I have some advice with regard to the whole issue of the Army
deployment and how to replace Army units which have been
stationed there for over six months and have become involved (in
the conflict).

First by separating these units from the conflict-prone areas
(in Maluku) and assigning them to medium conflict areas and to
secure areas.

I still believe a majority of the Army won't take sides with
the warring factions.

Q: Many are questioning why the military seems slow in resolving
these conflicts and are even suggesting foreign assistance...

A: The TNI and National Police can still cope, and in three
months things will calm down. Within two or three months there
will be a more conducive atmosphere. We don't need outside help.

We are also not planning to send too many troops outside the
capital ahead of the upcoming General Session (of the People's
Consultative Assembly).

I understand that people have high hopes of my office. I know
I have a national and international audience watching the
transition to happen inside the military.

But there are also high demands for me because of the serious
situation in the country that I have to handle...But give me
three months, things will be a different.

The problems in Maluku started in January 1999. Back then
there should already have been military action, but people
complained that the military might take excessive measures.

Now that we have decreed a state of civil emergency, we are
condemned again. People say we are too late.

These are the same people who criticized us for taking
excessive measures. You just cannot win with these people.

I understand that many people are clamoring for my head. I
don't know why. This is definitely not the easiest job in the
world.

Q: What's your opinion of the current political chaos in relation
to the many clashes on the ground?

A: We appeal to all political leaders and political analysts, to
tone down their political contest as it has negative consequences
for people on the ground. They should be very careful what they
say.

The most dangerous threat is not the military, because they
aren't unified enough and they don't have a desire to take over
the government.

The real danger is political backsliding, there is too much
democracy, too many talking heads who just talk, too much
brainstorming but nothing except storms. The civilian authority
must be successful.

Political parties must become institutionalized. We are good
at creating movements, but not at getting organized. We need a
leader like the Indian Sitting Bull, but all we get are bull
shitter leaders.