It still amazes me why foreign investors want to even open a factory here,
Yes exactly. Where's the protestant work ethic? Oh yeah , they're not Proddies are they? Mind you, these American fascists were probably payin' 'em about ten cents an hour.
non-americans generally figure this stuff out much faster, perhaps because they have had more exposure to cultures outside of their own.
I'm not arguing with you, because we are in total agreement on all that stuff.
On the quote here I also agree, and my theory is that it IS because the USA is such a multi-cultural place and many, many Americans have dealt with Asian-Americans in the business world inside of America. With that "experience", I think they get falsely confident and likely think that just because they were able to do biz with them there, they should also be able to do the same thing here. The HUGE difference is that Asian-Americans must abide by the same biz culture while in America. IN ASIA, they don't.
When you come from a place that's not nearly as multi-cultural (not just in terms of token immigrant brown faces populating the place, but in real terms like full assimilation into the mainstream culture), I think people have lower expectations for people (which, to Americans, is very patronizing) and realize beyond any doubt that everything will be completely different. Non-Americans mostly come into the situation knowing full well to expect the unexpected -- Americans don't or can't.
I'm speaking from a far greater breadth and depth of knowledge of these creatures than either of you will ever have -- is that they tend to be too naive and too trusting.
in this you are quite correct, and i was in fact going to mention this aspect in my previous message, but got distracted.
americans in asia are way too trusting with people here. they get taken for rides time and time again because they think they can deal with people in the same manner that they do in their own country.
non-americans generally figure this stuff out much faster, perhaps because they have had more exposure to cultures outside of their own.
in anglo-american cultures (and variants) you can (generally) take people at their word. or at least, people can legally be held to their word. this is most definitely not the case in asia.
so, when the american gets taken for a ride, how to they react? some turn into cowboys, and think they can get physical. others go way over the top paranoid, not trusting anyone at all.
in life, and especially in business, you've got to trust people at some point or you just can't function. americans really want to trust people, but here they seem to trust all the wrong ones! i've witnessed two good factories in java crippled by paranoic american owners who just could not sort out their human relations.
Why do they "lose" them? is it a question of attitude perhaps?
not entirely. but the attitude thing sure doesn't help matters.
Interesting story, and you gotta do a little reading between the lines to suss out what was really going on.
But I think you guys are too beholden to your own simplistic stereotypes of certain nationalities. It may well be a very good chance that their "attitude" contributed to this, but from a country of 300 million people, it's wildly reckless to make such an assumption.
I think the biggest problem that many American biz people have internationally -- and I'm speaking from a far greater breadth and depth of knowledge of these creatures than either of you will ever have -- is that they tend to be too naive and too trusting. They have high expectations for others and hold them to an international standard. Coming from a multi-cultural society, it is instilled in everyone to respect others and never be patronizing by allowing people to be mediocre.
When people who they trusted betray them, when people they had high expectations for let them down, they are shocked. They are unprepared for that shock.
In this case, my guess is it was a failure to pay off the thugs and cops -- and American biz people really can't fathom doing that. Indeed, there is a new law in the USA that specifically prohibits bribes when doing biz overseas.
Another shining example of great Indonesian labour workers behavior.
I recently went to a factory with tons of workers who purposely skipped work to get fired so they can get their puluhan juta in PHK money, and all their female workers take their 'cuti haid' every month. They should all go to dokter kandungan because there has to be something in the water that cause them to have worse flow that most women I know, and their so called period occurs sometimes once in 45 days and the next in 10 days. Amazing!
It still amazes me why foreign investors want to even open a factory here, where productivity is non existent, and you deal with thugs, liars, lazy asses constantly, whether in management or the labours.
i've made a lot of money in the past helping americans get their factories back. they seem to have a habit of losing them. possibly because they are absentee owners who think they have indonesian 'partners' they can trust.
Wasn't Balaraja where Piss Salons elephants ran amok?
1am seems a rather strange time to "just claiming their property back" .
What with them being American and all, I suspect that they deserved it be default - I thought all Americans were olympic rated sportsmen, and as such they should have been able to have just run away with a few leaps and bounds.
Multa Fidrus and Abdul Khalik, The Jakarta Post, Tangerang, Jakarta
Four Americans along with dozens of their employees have been arrested by the Tangerang Police for allegedly assaulting two workers at swimsuit producer PT Natural Selaras II in Olex Industrial Plant in Balaraja, Tangerang regency, Banten.
Tangerang Police chief of detectives Insp. Ade Arie said that the four American citizens have been placed in Tangerang Penitentiary pending investigation.
"We arrested them early morning on Monday. As of now, we are still examining them," he told The Jakarta Post on Thursday.
Ade identified one of the Americans as Scott Soura, 40, CEO of Los Angeles-based Manhattan Beachwear, the sole buyer of PT Natural Selaras II.
The police identified the three others as Joshua, Michael J. Keanely and Bouzan Timothy, a private investigator from Massachusetts.
The incident occurred around 1 a.m., when dozens of men are alleged to have forced their way into the factory compound after breaking down the front gate, which was guarded by several workers.
Witnesses said that the men attacked the workers and removed factory equipment.
"After receiving reports from the workers, we immediately sent officers to the factory and picked (the suspects) up for questioning," Ade said.
Ade confirmed the alleged assault and identified the victims as Emen and Agus.
Soura's lawyer, Zaki Tanjung, said his clients were being detained by the police, but dismissed allegations that they had assaulted the workers.
"They were detained because of unpleasant behavior, not for attacking (anyone). Who attacked who? Look, my clients were in the car back then.
"You see, all the equipment and the factory belongs to my clients. So why can't he claim his property?. Everything happened because some thugs guarded and prevented my clients from claiming things that were his right," he told the Post.
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