Egyptian ambassador reflects on time spent in Indonesia

On the occasion of Egypt's 48th national day on July 23, The Jakarta Post's Kosasih Deradjat recently interviewed outgoing Egyptian envoy Abdel Rahim Shalaby, who has been posted in Jakarta for two and a half years. An excerpt of the interview follows:

Question: It was in Cairo when former Indonesian president Soeharto disclosed for the first time his intention to resign. President Abdurrahman Wahid also visited Egypt shortly after he came to power. What comprises the most significant ties between the two countries?

Answer: Even before Indonesia's general election, we organized a trip for Abdurrahman Wahid to Egypt to meet high ranking officials of the University of Al-Azhar in Cairo. Mr. Abdurrahman has told me personally how close he feels to Egypt and Egyptian people. On both sides, there have always been efforts to improve ties.

Not just in recent years. Egypt has for a long time been a good friend of Indonesia.

These relations go back since Indonesia declared its independence in 1945. Since the very beginning Egypt was the first country to recognize the newly independent state. Even two days before Indonesia declared its independence (on Aug. 17) the Egyptian foreign minister and an Indonesian founding father, Agus Salim, agreed to announce Egypt's acknowledgement of Indonesia's independence.

Before that there were people-to-people contacts, Indonesian students studying in Cairo, Egyptian ulemas coming to Indonesia and merchants who first came here 400 to 500 years ago.

What is the most significant improvement in the ties during your term?

The development of economic ties, diplomatic ties and trade volume reaching about US$250 million per year. Although Indonesia is suffering an economic crisis there has been an upward trend during the first six months of this year. There has been an eight percent increase in trade (between the two countries) during the period, with surplus for Indonesia.

Two visits were made by President Abdurrahman to Cairo; once one month before the general elections in 1999 and then recently when he attended the G15 summit (of developing countries).

We are seeking cooperation in other fields now, in addition to those that have gone well in the political, cultural, economic, educational, and trade sector.

There has always been political cooperation between high ranking officials in the Non-Aligned Movement, the G15, and meetings of the Organization of Islamic Conference.

After the G15 meeting in Cairo, President Hosni Mubarak gave instructions to the Egyptian economic team to increase trade with G15 member countries. He mentioned in particular Indonesia, Malaysia and India.

President Mubarak has presented President Abdurrahman a piece of land, free of charge, at a free-trade zone east of the Suez Canal for Indonesia to enlarge Indonesian exports to Africa, Middle East and Europe.

During your term you have witnessed the historical change of power in Indonesia and the misery of the people in this economic, political and social crises. What have your impressions been?

I have had ... a bonus of 30 years experience (in) foreign service. Maybe a lot of people would think they have seen everything. But I have to admit I have had quite a lot of experience here in only two and half years. It is what others and myself rightly call a unique experience.

Being here in Indonesia at the time and seeing these changes in one of the world's largest Muslim countries has been very, very important for Egypt in terms of bilateral relations and coordination on general policies covering most global issues.

(I witnessed) the change to democracy, the events in East Timor, the presidential election, and the parliamentary election to which I was appointed by my colleagues as an observer.

As a fellow member of the OIC what has Egypt done for the crisis here?

Of course we sympathize a lot with Indonesia in all the problems it encounters. If you are referring to the problems in Maluku or in Aceh or Irian Jaya, of course (we are) in defending positions that recognizes Indonesia's sovereignty over those territories, and we hope Indonesia is able to solve the problems within the context of conciliation and peaceful dialog and compromise.

What is your comment on Abdurrahman's earlier statement that he would establish diplomatic ties with Israel?

I do not think President Abdurrahman is going to establish diplomatic relations with Israel. What he spoke about is to have official trade relations with Israel. It is not up to me as an ambassador of Egypt or anyone else to question the sovereignty of Indonesia to make its own decision.

But my impression is that the President, the government, the Indonesian ministry of foreign affairs, the Indonesian public at large, and most legislators which represent various political groupings have decided that maybe this (official ties with Israel) is not the right time. So it is not diplomatic relations that the President spoke about.

How do you see the peacemaking process in the Middle East between Israel and Palestine, and between Israel, Syria and Lebanon?

We hope the negotiations, including those going on in Camp David ... will succeed.

The key factor is in the Madrid Conference for Peace (October 1991) about the exchange of land for peace. If we are to live in peace in the Middle East then Israel simply has to give back all of the land it took in 1967. It has to abide by international laws as represented in the relevant Resolution of the United Nations.

Egypt is the first country to achieve peaceful relations with Israel (in 1977) without having to relinquish any territory. This is the right for other Arab parties as well.

But at the same time I would like to underline the declaration by President Hosni Mubarak made a few weeks ago which affirmed that Egypt is going to recognize a Palestine state either as the product of the agreement or as a unilateral declaration.

If you were the Indonesian president what would you do?

That is one of the most difficult jobs in the world right now. And I do not think any diplomat or politician envies this situation .... not just regarding the President but of all the leaders ... Democracy is not only (about) the president ... It is a difficult situation but of course I hope that Indonesia's leadership will always find the right thing to do according to Indonesia's interest and the wishes of its people.

What do you like and dislike from Indonesia?

I like a lot of things in Indonesia but mainly the Indonesian people themselves. I have been here for some time and never at a single moment, when dealing with officials or other people, have I felt as a foreigner.

What I do not like from Indonesia ... maybe the humidity. I am not very much used to humidity. But I have grown accustomed to it. I can manage it now.