Australians see Susilo as open-minded, honest

Professor of history at the University of New South Wales, Sydney, John Ingleson talked with The Jakarta Post's Rita A. Widiadana about Australia and Indonesia relations. He was one of the speakers at the recent Indonesia-Australia Business Conference in Bali on April 18 and 19. This is an excerpt.

Question How do you view the relationship between Indonesia and Australia as neighbors in the region?

Answer: It is not yet a natural relationship, in the sense that there are no deep ties of kith and kin and of common religious values or a shared political and cultural heritage.

It is undeniable that Australia and Indonesia are located next to each other. They are physically close. But close proximity does not necessarily lead to good relations. Relations with neighbors can be good, bad or quite frequently indifferent.

There are few in either country who understand the subtleties of the other's history. When difficult issues emerge this makes it very hard to explain them in the public domain.

At the moments of crisis, it is so easy for the press and competing domestic interest groups to resort to simplification and to ignore the broader context of the social and political forces at work in each society.

How is the image of Indonesia among ordinary Australians?

For most Australians Indonesia is indeed a foreign country. Few understand the complexity of Indonesian society -- the sheer difficulty of governing the country even at the best of times. By and large, Australians have little understanding of the difficulties of "nation building", let alone nation building in such an ethnic and linguistically diverse society as Indonesia. For many, the Islamness of Indonesia remains an issue, largely because Australian, like the West generally, has a very simplistic view of Islam, usually viewing it through the prism of the Middle East.

Does it mean that Indonesia is a serious threat for them in terms of politics, security?

For over 20 years public opinion polls have shown that significant numbers of Australians believe that the country that most threatens them is Indonesia. We might protest that this view is irrational. We ignore it at our peril. I am a great admirer of first the Bob Hawke and then Paul Keating governments' foreign policy which encouraged deeper Australian engagement with Asia. These governments recognized that such engagement was central to Australia's future.

However, it was clear at the time and clearer still subsequently that the Labor government was well ahead of public opinion. Australian governments have to deal with deeply entrenched popular phobias about Indonesia. Deeply held concerns in Australia about Indonesia have been strengthened in the past decade by Australians' negative views of Islam and Islamic militants.

Are there ways in which both the Indonesian and Australian governments as well as their people can change these negative perceptions in order to create more understanding between the two countries?

A democratic Indonesia may be quite difficult for Australia to adjust to because so few understand the subtleties of its history. The social and political forces inside Indonesia are very diverse. They will not always adopt public positions to the liking of Australia. Both Indonesian and Australian politicians will at times subordinate the long-term development of the relationship to the short-term demands of domestic politics.

We are going to always have problems in interpreting each other's democratic processes as long as neither side really understands the subtleties of each other's history.

How can both Indonesians and Australians learn from each other's history and society?

Australia should focus on supporting deep educational links between the two countries. Tens of thousands of young Indonesians study in Australia every year. Most make Australian friends. Most enjoy the experience of living in Australia. Most return home with new skills along with deeper understanding of how Australian society works. This should be encouraged, through the provision of significant numbers of scholarships, by publicly valuing the benefits of educating Indonesians in Australia and by making visa regulations as easy as possible.

But many Australian universities have already opened Indonesian programs. Isn't this adequate?

Unfortunately, Australia universities are now abandoning their Indonesian programs as students' interest has declined dramatically. Many of the Indonesianists (experts of Indonesia) are of my generation -- and are not being replaced by younger people. If this situation is not reversed, this will be disastrous for Australia's understanding of Indonesia. It must be reversed immediately. But this will not happen without direct government intervention.

With the change of government in Indonesia, do you see any significant impact on the relationship of the two countries?

I am very optimistic that this will have a positive impact. I remember when President Susilo Bambang Yudhoyono recently visited Australia; it was a very successful visit. He was seen by many Australians as an open-minded, honest and forthright. I have never seen past Indonesian leaders who could handle the Australian public, and more importantly the media, in such a genuine and honest way.

Susilo demonstrated a remarkable capacity in dealing with an Australian audience. He revealed that Indonesia is now facing serious corruption problems but he convinced them that his government will do their best to fight against corruption. Susilo's speech and manners gave positive signs to the Australian government, the public and the media as well as the business community.

It is important for Australians to receive a clear and honest message from their Indonesian counterparts.

Other factors that enhanced this relationship were the tsunami and Nias earthquake. The tsunami, for the moment at least, has swept away much of the negativity felt by many Australians toward Indonesia. The generosity of the Australian government and its people has helped heal wounds felt on the Indonesian side too.