JP\/5\/JUN<\/p>\n
What is the current nature of relations between the government
\nand the Indonesian Military? Jun Honna, assistant professor at
\nthe Faculty of International Relations of Ritsumeikan University
\nin Kyoto, spoke to The Jakarta Post's staff writer Kornelius
\nPurba during one of his visits to Jakarta earlier this month.<\/p>\n
Question: Some say the relations between President Megawati
\nSoekarnoputri and the Indonesian Military (TNI) are warmer than
\nthey were with her predecessor Abdurrahman Wahid (Gus Dur). Do
\nyou share this view?<\/p>\n
Answer: I think the relationship between the military and
\nMegawati is much closer than it was with Gus Dur due to his
\nconstant meddling in TNI's affairs. That is why military officers
\ngot angry with him and finally they helped, pushed and encouraged
\nthe People's Consultative Assembly (MPR) to speed up Gus Dur's
\nimpeachment.<\/p>\n
They succeeded, and because of that contribution Megawati
\nneeds to include the TNI in her government. That is why at least
\nfour ministers are from a military background. They will play an
\nimportant role ...<\/p>\n
Conservative elements of TNI are now said to be back in
\ncontrol of the military.<\/p>\n
I agree, especially if you look at the messages given out by
\nMegawati's selection of certain people. She relies on Maj.Gen.
\n(ret.) Theo Syafei as an executive of her Indonesian Democratic
\nParty of Struggle (PDI Perjuangan). She also picked Lt.Gen.(ret).
\nA.M. Hendropriyono to head the National Intelligence Agency
\n(BIN). She has a very close relationship with Army chief Gen.
\nEndriartono Sutarto, and she also has a very cozy relationship
\nwith Commander of the Army's Strategic Reserves (Kostrad) Lt.Gen.
\nRyamizard Ryacudu.<\/p>\n
These people are not hardliners, but key people in the Army.
\nAnd especially people like Hendropriyono and Theo, are also
\nformer special forces (Kopassus) members. I think if these people
\ninfluence Megawati's policy, it will be quite difficult to expect
\ngenuine reform of civilian-military relations.
\nThere is an impression that the military now feels freer in
\nfacing the people under Megawati.<\/p>\n
That will depend on Megawati's policy, but of course the
\nmilitary is not independent from Megawati. I think Megawati will
\nalso try to control the military for her own political interests,
\nbut will choose a different way from that of Gus Dur. She has
\ngood military advisers who may influence her on how to deal with
\nthe military ... .<\/p>\n
What is Megawati's strategy in dealing with the military?<\/p>\n
We have to look at what happens over the next six months, but
\nI think Megawati's strategy for TNI is to try to control it
\nthrough the officers she is close to.<\/p>\n
Will the Army become stronger?<\/p>\n
I don't think there will be a great difference between the
\nMegawati and Gus Dur administrations regarding the military's
\nrole in politics. TNI keeps repeating its formal stance, on its
\nconsensus against being involved in politics.<\/p>\n
But the problem is that when the military is used by the
\nPresident, then the military inevitably becomes involved in
\npolitics. That could happen with Megawati too, if she tries to
\nuse the military for her own political interests. If that
\nhappens, the military will resist.<\/p>\n
The question should be ... if Megawati issued certain orders,
\ncould TNI (given its leadership's close relations with the
\nPresident) resist as easily as it did under Gus Dur's government?
\nTNI's Territorial Chief of Staff Lt.Gen. Agus Wijoyo said that
\nthe military is ready to hand over its territorial functions to
\ncivilian institutions. How do you see this?<\/p>\n
It takes time to transform the territorial system into a more
\ncivilian-led system regarding the regions. Whatever form it
\ntakes, a defense system depends on the country and its geo-
\npolitical circumstances. So in reforming the system, we need to
\nreach a consensus between the civilians and the military. But
\nuntil now territorial management has been dominated by military
\npeople.<\/p>\n
In the future the military has neither the ability nor the
\ndesire to dominate this territorial system. TNI is ready to hand
\nover some of its duties to civilian institutions. The question is
\nwhether civilian institutions are really ready to take over the
\nregional control mechanism.<\/p>\n
The issue is not whether TNI is ready to withdraw from its
\nterritorial role, as it indeed has political interests. It is
\neasy to ask soldiers to return to barracks, but what they will do
\nafter that?<\/p>\n
Do you think TNI is sincere in abandoning its territorial
\nrole?<\/p>\n
If you look at Thailand for instance, they have military
\ndivisions but there is no military command as you have here. Of
\ncourse its geographic situation is different so we cannot compare
\nIndonesia directly with other countries. Thailand is also
\nadopting a new paradigm because the military there is expected to
\nfollow the shift towards democracy.<\/p>\n
Thailand's military also owns businesses, which are now being
\ndrastically cut. Indonesia may need up to, say, 10 years,
\ndepending on the particular area, to reduce the number of
\nmilitary commands, regional military districts, district military
\ncommands down to the sub-district level (Babinsa).<\/p>\n
The military is now identifying sample areas to see where its
\n(different levels of) military command could first be dissolved,
\nand will watch what happens (in those areas). If that program is
\nsuccessful it will expand it to larger areas.<\/p>\n
TNI has allegedly been involved in many riots and other
\nviolent incidents. Will such a situation persist?<\/p>\n
Of course it is very hard to anticipate whether the current
\nterrorist activities (allegedly involving TNI) will continue. But
\nif you look at the pattern, when the government tried to punish
\npeople who were involved in the old regime, those kinds of
\nterrorist activities occurred. So maybe in the future, under
\nMegawati's government, if Megawati tried to punish the old guard
\namong the civilians and military, there is a strong possibility
\nthat terrorist activities might happen again, aimed at
\ndestabilizing the country.
\nHow about the current TNI mainstream?<\/p>\n
The mainstream is of course people around Gen. Sutarto. He has
\nbecome popular for publicly resisting Gus Dur's political
\nmaneuvers. Many thought Gus Dur's decree on the state of
\nemergency was wrong ... .<\/p>\n
At that time the General received support from most of the
\nretired officers. This is unusual. Usually only a few retired
\nofficers support an Army chief. Many think that this event is
\nsimilar to the one involving the late Gen. Sudirman who had the
\ncourage to resist president Sukarno. I think the mainstream
\nincludes Sutarto, Ryamizard, and Army deputy chief Lt.Gen. Kiki
\nSyahnakri.
\nWhat is Gen. Sutarto's power base?<\/p>\n
His power base is his good reputation as a professional
\nsoldier, (among others things, with his) experience in East Timor
\nand other operations in the field. He is very straightforward, he
\nis not the type of person who simply talks but does nothing.
\nUntil now he has always been assigned to key positions. He was a
\nkey officer under Gen. Wiranto and then he became Army deputy
\nchief. I think his power base is his own experience as an officer
\nin the field. It is still difficult to find such a strong
\ncharacter within TNI. He is respected by many officers.<\/p>\n
With the ongoing economic hardship the military is also in
\nfinancial difficulty.<\/p>\n
After the economic crisis had started it was quite difficult
\nfor each regional military command to augment its budget, so
\nsoldiers' wages remained very low. That is a big problem, as we
\nare promoting professionalism within the military. It is easy to
\nsay that the military should return to barracks, that it should
\nbe professionalized, but without support from civilians in
\nproviding a large enough budget, it will be very difficult for
\nthe military to act professionally.<\/p>\n
I think civilians, especially politicians, do not respect
\nmilitary professionalism. They tend to look at military people
\nonly in terms of their political interests. Within the military
\nthere is no incentive to implement professionalism. Funding
\nresources usually emanate from territorial activities.<\/p>\n
The military used to be involved in local businesses, like
\nproviding protection for foreign companies in Irian Jaya, Aceh
\nand other provinces. Without such extra resources, it will be
\ndifficult for the military to survive financially. Its sources of
\nfinancial support have become smaller and smaller.
\nGus Dur appointed Adm. Widodo from the Navy as TNI chief. What
\nwill Megawati's policy be on TNI leadership?<\/p>\n
There are a number of possibilities. The first choice would be
\nto appoint current Air Force chief Marshall Hanafie Asnan as
\nWidodo's successor. After a few years she might want Army
\nofficers to command TNI. Within TNI there is a kind of agreement
\nto award the position of TNI chief to different forces by
\nrotation.<\/p>\n
It's possible that Hanafie might lead TNI. But I think
\nMegawati wants the Army chief to be the TNI commander. So after
\none year, there may be another change of leadership. But it is
\nalso possible that she will directly appoint Gen. Sutarto as TNI
\ncommander when Widodo ends his military service. If that were to
\nhappen, we could expect some opposition from the Air Force, so
\nMegawati will have to be careful in handling this issue.
\nHow about antimilitary sentiment among the public?.<\/p>\n
The public perception of the military is not good because of
\nthe military's past behaviors, especially its human rights
\nabuses. Citizens need public security, while the police has not
\nfunctioned well. That's why a recent public poll by Yogyakarta-
\nbased Gadjah Mada University found that most people questioned
\npreferred the continued presence of the military commands and the
\nterritorial system. But we have to look at the nature of their
\nsupport. Maybe they need the military commands because people
\nsimply want security. If reliable public security could be
\nprovided by the police, people might express a different opinion.<\/p>",
"url": "https:\/\/jawawa.id\/newsitem\/jp5jun-1447899208",
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