Indonesia: Moving from openness to the winds of reform<\/p>\n
By Yenni Djahidin<\/p>\n
WASHINGTON (JP): Paul Wolfowitz, one of the most popular
\nAmerican ambassadors to serve in Indonesia, is remembered most
\nfor setting off a healthy but short-lived discourse on democracy
\nin his last speech before ending his term in Jakarta.<\/p>\n
It is now more than 10 years since he left his Jakarta post,
\nyet Wolfowitz's Bahasa Indonesia is good, attesting to his
\nfrequent travels to the country he loves very much.<\/p>\n
Now dean of the Paul Nitze School of Advanced International
\nStudies at Johns Hopkins University, Washington, D.C., he is
\nstill involved with Indonesia, including testifying in Congress,
\nand closely monitors the changes taking place there.<\/p>\n
He recently visited Indonesia to help the International Public
\nInstitute draw up a strategy in assisting the preparations for a
\nfree and fair general election. He said he detected strong
\nenthusiasm among people in anticipating a genuine and democratic
\ngeneral election.<\/p>\n
The following are excerpts of Wolfowitz's interview on various
\nissues, including his controversial speech 10 years ago, his
\nrelations with Soeharto, and his opinion of President B.J.
\nHabibie. The core part of the interview appears on Page 1.<\/p>\n
Question: In your last speech as ambassador in Jakarta, you talked about
\nketerbukaan (openness). Can you relate your ideas with the
\ncurrent reformasi (reform movement)?<\/p>\n
Answer: It was 10 years ago and obviously there is much more openness
\nin Indonesia now than there was then. The press freedom is
\nspectacular. If the process had opened up in a more gradual and
\nsteady way, Indonesia could be, at this point today, without some
\nof the turmoil and some of the negative aspects. If, for example,
\nthere are too many political parties as some people think, one
\nreason for that is because for 30 years there was no movement.<\/p>\n
Soeharto used to talk a lot about dynamic stability, which was
\nthe idea that you don't achieve stability just by standing still.
\nAnd that idea of dynamic stability, incorporated the idea that
\nyou need to keep changing. And I think one of the problems is,
\nand I said it at the time 10 years ago, I thought economic
\nprogress had been very impressive, but to continue that progress
\nfor another 25 years, it was necessary to have a greater openness
\nin a political sphere as well. Unfortunately, I believe that the
\nevents for the last 10 years have confirmed that.<\/p>\n
Q: You often testified in Congress in favor of the Indonesian
\ngovernment, so much so that you have been accused as being
\nSoeharto's lobbyist. How do you feel about it?<\/p>\n
A: I didn't testify on behalf of the Indonesian government. I
\ntestified in favor of certain American programs with the
\nIndonesian government. I don't think anyone had any secret about
\nmy views, about the need for political change in Indonesia or the
\nneed for political openness. I said it not only privately, I said
\nit out in the public and in the open. I believe to this day that
\ncanceling military training for Indonesian officers is a big
\nmistake. It's not because I love the Indonesian government and
\nthe Indonesian Military and think that everything they do is
\nright, but I believe that the training that Indonesian officers
\nget in the United States, for the most part, is helpful for
\nprogress in Indonesia. That doesn't mean that you can't find
\nsomebody who was trained in military techniques and then misused
\nthose techniques when they went back to Indonesia.<\/p>\n
I will give you a very concrete example. When I was in
\nJakarta, I met with Minister of Information Yunus Yosfiah, who
\nhas talked about abolishing the whole ministry and has stopped
\nany limitations on press freedom. And this man is a military
\nofficer who had his first education about the press at the U.S.
\nArmy Command and Staff College in Levenworth (Texas). He took a
\ncourse on the media and it changed his whole view on the media.
\nDoes any human rights person believe that it would have been
\nbetter to keep that man in Indonesia and deny him a chance for
\ntraining in the United States? To me that kind is one example
\nthat would prove the case, but there are many examples. I don't
\nbelieve that isolating Indonesia or isolating the government of
\nIndonesia would have been good for Indonesians. I really don't.
\nAnd I also don't believe that everything the old government did
\nwas bad. And I think one has to be fair, one has to be balanced.
\nThere was a lot to be criticized, I think I made the criticism
\nclear.<\/p>\n
Q: What's your personal view on Soeharto?<\/p>\n
A: I expressed it in an article I wrote in Wall Street Journal a
\nyear ago. I called it the \"Tragedy of Soeharto\". I believe if 10
\nyears ago he had dealt seriously with the issue of succession,
\ncorruption and the need for a greater democracy and greater press
\nfreedom, he could have prepared the way for a great change in
\nIndonesia and he could be a hero today. And not only for the
\neconomic progress, but for all these things. It's a tragedy that
\ninstead of doing those things, he allowed corruption to increase
\nthrough his children, he suppressed the attempt to develop
\nalternative political leadership and he tightened up on the
\npress, tightened up on the political parties. Everyone of those
\nthings was a mistake.<\/p>\n
It's tragic. I don't think Soeharto is Ferdinand Marcos, I
\ndon't think Marcos did anything good for the Philippines. But
\nunfortunately, the way Soeharto had gone in the last 10 years,
\nhe's seriously damaged his historical reputation.<\/p>\n
Q: Have you had any contact with Soeharto since then?<\/p>\n
A: I don't think he wants to see me. He doesn't think I was a
\ngreat supporter of Indonesia.<\/p>\n
Q: What do you think about President B.J. Habibie?<\/p>\n
A: (After a long pause) In my view, Habibie missed an
\nopportunity. I think he had an opportunity to really be known as
\nthe man who made a new democratic system work. But to do that he
\nwould have to step back and be like a referee in a soccer match.
\nYou can't be a referee and be a player on the field. And he's
\ntrying to be both. And as a result, I think, he can't do either
\nnearly as well.<\/p>\n
It remains to be seen what, how this election goes and what
\nthe Indonesian people think of him. And what they think of him is
\nmuch more important than what I think about him. But if there was
\nan opportunity that was lost in the past 12 months, it was the
\nopportunity to have a government that declares \"we are a
\ntransitional government, we have no further ambitions for public
\noffice, our only ambition is to make this democratic process
\nwork.\" I think the chances of a successful process would have
\nbeen even greater.<\/p>\n
Q: What do you think of Habibie's policy on East Timor? Is the
\ngovernment moving too fast?<\/p>\n
A: I'm not sure it's too fast. There's no question that Indonesia
\nis moving in the right direction. There's no question in my mind
\nthat Timor was significant 20 years ago in a way it completely
\nlost its significance today. It is not unreasonable 20 years ago
\nto be afraid that a so-called independent East Timor would
\nactually become an outpost of the Soviet Union. And after what
\nIndonesia had been through, you did not need a communist country
\non your doorstep. But that's history. It's totally irrelevant
\nnow. And I don't think Indonesia gains anything very much from
\nhanging on to East Timor. So, I sympathize with that view, but I
\nalso believe that there's less consensus within East Timor than
\nthe typical international press story will have you believe.
\nThere are divisions in that society, but I'm afraid that right
\nnow, some of the Indonesian officials and the military people
\nthere are exacerbating those divisions instead of trying to calm
\nthem down. But that's the issue, whether you can have an
\nelection, a referendum in an atmosphere of a lot intimidation.
\nAnd even if real opinion is deeply divided, then you have a
\nquestion about how you deal with that.<\/p>\n
Q: How do people in Washington view Indonesia today?<\/p>\n
A: It depends on who you talk too. You heard what I think and I
\nthink people who are very interested in Indonesia think as I do,
\nthat something very important is happening there and there is a
\nvery hopeful possibility and there's also very big danger clouds.<\/p>\n
But, I'm afraid that most people in Washington don't think
\nabout Indonesia very much at all. And one of the reasons for that
\nis the appearance that it's just another place where ethnic
\ngroups are killing one another. So, it's indistinguishable from
\nSri Lanka or, you name it, and not to mention the Balkans. And, I
\nbelieve that the view here of Indonesia will change a lot if the
\nprocess that Indonesia is heading into emerges as a real triumph
\nfor democracy because that really gets attention here. I've seen
\nit happened when Mrs. Aquino became president of the Philippines;
\nI've seen it happened when Korea became a democracy. Even after
\nKorea was already democratic and Kim Dae-jung became president,
\nthat produced a further increase in interest and attention here.
\nSo, you could say it's a sign of success and people here like to
\nsupport success, but I also think it's a matter of common values.<\/p>\n
There is a genuine deep belief in this country in democracy
\nand when people seem to be moving in that direction, there's a
\ngenuine desire to help. And when people don't seem to be doing
\nmuch except making trouble for one another, then you lose
\ninterest because, what can you do about it? That's the attitude.
\nI'm not defending it, I think it's a wrong attitude, but it's the
\nreality.<\/p>\n
Q: A year ago, many foreign investors backed off from Indonesia
\nbecause of the economic and the political crises. What advice do
\nyou give to them now?<\/p>\n
A: I think what they think right now is \"it's a very very risky
\nplace to put your money\". I would say to them, it is risky but it
\ncould also go very well. Risk is both ways and there are
\nopportunities as well as risks. This is why I think the election
\nprocess is so important. It's going to determine a lot about how
\npeople view the risks and opportunities in Indonesia. And it
\ncould turn a very difficult situation into a very hopeful one.
\nOne of the things that happens when people begin to see the
\npossibility of things turning around, even if it's still a few
\nyears away, they start to make decisions now that make that come
\ntrue. And I think you also find a lot of Indonesian
\nbusinesspeople who would move money out of the country and bring
\nit back if they see stability being restored and a good political
\nprocess being developed.<\/p>",
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