Indonesia looks into illegal logging, debt swap for nature<\/p>\n
Indonesia is sending at least three ministers to the fourth
\npreparatory committee meeting for World Summit on sustainable
\ndevelopment in Bali. The delegation will be led by Coordinating
\nMinister for Economy Dorodjatun Kuntjoro-Jakti, with State
\nMinister of Environment Nabiel Makarim and Foreign Minister
\nHassan Wirayuda as delegates. The Jakarta Post interviewed Nabiel
\nand Hassan to get a glimpse of Indonesia's goals in the upcoming
\nseries of meetings.
\n
\n===================
\nTantri Yuliandini and
\nFabiola Desy Unidjaja
\nThe Jakarta Post
\nJakarta
\n-------------------<\/p>\n
NABIEL MAKARIM<\/p>\n
What will be presented as the main agenda in the preparatory
\ncommittee meeting in Bali?<\/p>\n
In preparing for the substantial material, anybody could give
\nideas so that there are many issues to consider.<\/p>\n
There are so many inputs, it is in our best interest to get
\nthem into focus. Only the important issues will be considered and
\nwe will try to avoid controversial ones.<\/p>\n
We will not pursue the Kyoto Protocol, for example, because
\nthe United States will never agree to it and there would be a big
\nargument over it. In the end, the cooperation that we are hoping
\nfor will be jeopardized. It would be better if, for now, we build
\ntrust and cooperation with the issues that we all believe in, and
\ndiscuss the Kyoto Protocol at a later time.<\/p>\n
In giving focus, we also need to choose strategic issues that
\ncould become a momentum for cooperation to work, for example
\npoverty alleviation, the financing of sustainable development,
\nchanging the pattern of production and consumption, good
\ngovernance, environmental conservation and civil society.<\/p>\n
Those are neutral subjects and we must start from those.
\nWhat will the government of Indonesia push for in this meeting?<\/p>\n
The first three issues are important to us, with global
\nperspective. There is also one thing that concerns Indonesia most
\nthat we must push forward, which is illegal logging.<\/p>\n
We will ask other countries to check the logs they buy and not
\nbuy those without official papers. Because as long as people do
\nnot question whether the wood used for chairs are stolen or not,
\nillegal logging will never be eradicated.<\/p>\n
For problems (like this), it's important to not only act from
\nthe supply side but also from the demand side. We could do
\neverything possible in Indonesia but as long as there is demand,
\nillegal logging will continue.<\/p>\n
Yes, there's ecolabeling, but not enough countries are doing
\nit. It has to be strengthened.
\nWhat about the Debt for Nature Swap (DNS) scheme, are we going to
\npush for it, too?<\/p>\n
In principle, the scheme works like this: If Indonesia owes
\nUS$100 to the United States, the U.S. could say that we could pay
\nonly $50 while the other half is put into the DNS program. From
\nthat $50 saved, we would be required to put into environmental
\nefforts such as replanting trees.<\/p>\n
After sustainable development, the DNS is changed to just debt
\nswap, full stop, meaning that it is not only for nature but also
\nopen to education, or other concerns. This will be further
\ndiscussed during the Prepcom meeting where we will figure out how
\nwe will finance sustainable development.
\nAre there any countries that we have agreed to do a debt swap
\nwith?<\/p>\n
Yes, we have reached an agreement with Germany for education,
\nit's now left for us to implement it. The value is about $50
\nmillion. The value is not necessarily huge, if you look at the
\ntotal debt, but it will greatly lighten the load of the state
\nbudget.<\/p>\n
Other countries have also expressed interest for a debt swap
\nwith us, such as the U.S. and other European countries. What
\nhappened with us was this; the program was initiated at the time
\nof (former president) B.J. Habibie and before an agreement could
\nbe finalized there was a change in government. This has happened
\nseveral times. Let's hope that now we will have time to finalize
\nthis.
\nAre there any other trade-off schemes besides debt swaps?<\/p>\n
Another scheme for trade is what is called carbon trade. If a
\ncompany in a developed country has not yet achieved an accepted
\nlevel of carbon emissions, the company would be obliged by its
\ngovernment to pay for tree planting in developed countries, as
\nmany as it needs, for the remaining emissions to be absorbed.<\/p>\n
This (scheme) will be a bit time-consuming to implement
\nbecause there is no agreement yet in terms of pricing, or how
\nmany trees it takes for an amount of carbon to be absorbed.<\/p>\n
This is important for us, if it works well then there will be
\nan incentive for regional administrations to preserve their
\nforests. The situation now is that regencies want to cut down
\ntrees for the money, but if unharmed trees have a value, then it
\nis more profitable not to cut them down.<\/p>\n
The third scheme is to include the participation of
\nbusinesses. If the government has 2,000 hectares of empty land,
\ncompanies could finance the planting of trees and in return we
\ncould grant the company's name to the forest. Nokia forest, for
\nexample, isn't a bad idea, right?
\nHow does Indonesia, as a host country anticipate the insertion of
\nterrorism issues, especially to divert attention from the Kyoto
\nProtocol<\/p>\n
There will always be diversions, but we will try to keep it
\nfocused. But it also depends on how well the U.S. can influence
\nother countries, because it is a strong country. If that happens
\nobviously we cannot walk out. If that's the general consensus
\nthen what can we do, but quietly object to it.<\/p>\n
We don't want to get stuck in political issues outside our
\nfocus on this. There will always be efforts to divert attention,
\nand they take many forms, for example from the anti-globalization
\ngroups that will maybe launch a demonstration.
\nSustainable development has so far lost out to the World Trade
\nOrganization (WTO) that is backed by powerful countries, how
\ncould we counter this?<\/p>\n
In general the problem of money is more interesting. But we
\nmust also see the trend, and the trend for environmental issues
\nare increasing. It's possible that in 10 years time this will
\nbecome even bigger than WTO.<\/p>\n
Especially for Indonesia, we are already effected directly by
\nthe destruction of the environment, the recent floods for
\nexample. The effects are immediate, cut down tress then flooding
\nwill occur.<\/p>\n
What's happening is that the impacts of the destruction of the
\nenvironment around the world are increasing. People feel this,
\nthey fear it, and so it becomes important.<\/p>\n
Losing out to WTO is okay as long as this also works. If
\nsustainable development becomes more important but
\n(implementation is) ineffective then it is useless.
\nEffectiveness is what's important, the cooperation.<\/p>\n
International trade will, of course, be discussed, illegal
\nlogging is a form of trade too, trade of illegal logs.<\/p>",
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