Human rights activist takes firm line on corruption<\/p>\n
It is no secret that corruption is a rampant practice in
\nIndonesia, inflicting huge losses to the state. Last month, a
\nnumber of people set up the Movement of Concerned Citizens on
\nState Assets (Gempita) in their effort to save the
\nmisappropriated state assets. The Jakarta Post's T. Sima Gunawan
\ninterviewed a member of the group, Baharuddin Lopa, who is also
\nSecretary General of National Commission of Human Rights.<\/p>\n
JAKARTA (JP): People once only dared whisper about the reputed
\nstaggering wealth of Soeharto and his family.<\/p>\n
But the silence has ended on the public secret, accompanied by
\na clamor of accusations the fortune was ill-gotten through
\nrampant corruption, collusion and nepotism.<\/p>\n
The three misdeeds -- conveniently clumped under their
\nIndonesian initials KKN in public parlance -- have caused huge
\nlosses to the state. A group of people founded the Movement of
\nConcerned Citizens on State Assets (Gempita) last month to try to
\nsalvage some of what rightfully belongs to a people now quaking
\nin the terrible economic crisis.<\/p>\n
A member is Baharuddin Lopa, secretary-general of the National
\nCommission on Human Rights.<\/p>\n
Lopa was born in Mandar, South Sulawesi, in 1935, and
\ngraduated in law from Hasanuddin University in Ujungpandang in
\n1962. He received his doctorate from Diponegoro University in
\nSemarang, Central Java.<\/p>\n
He started his career as a prosecutor at the Ujungpandang
\nprosecutor's office in 1958. From 1982 to 1986, he was chief of
\nthe South Sulawesi provincial prosecutor's office. Known for his
\ntough court demeanor, Lopa handled several corruption cases
\ninvolving billions of rupiah before he was transferred to the
\nMinistry of Justice. After serving as an expert staff at the
\nministry for two years, he became director general of
\ncorrectional affairs (1988-1995).<\/p>\n
Highly respected for his discipline and integrity, Lopa joined
\nthe National Commission of Human Rights in 1993.<\/p>\n
He talked with The Jakarta Post last week.<\/p>\n
Question: Why did you set up Gempita?<\/p>\n
Answer: It is to build moral strength in society and speed up
\nthe collection of data on national assets which have been
\nmisappropriated. We will collect data from the public and then
\nconvey them to the Attorney General's Office.<\/p>\n
We do not have any executive power, and Gempita is not
\nbinding. Anyone can give the data directly to the Attorney
\nGeneral's Office.<\/p>\n
What has the public response been to Gempita?<\/p>\n
The public has made a quick response. Gempita was established
\non Friday evening (May 29), and at dawn the following day I had
\nalready received two phone calls about state assets which were
\nmisappropriated. I asked them to put it in writing and provide
\nthe supporting data to Gempita's office (Jl. Mega Kuningan Barat
\n1, Jakarta 12950, Ph. 576-988, Fax. 576-0987).<\/p>\n
I told my colleagues we have to be careful, we have to pay
\nattention to accuracy of the reports.<\/p>\n
It is widely reported that Soeharto and his family have
\nmisappropriated state assets. Is this why you set up Gempita?<\/p>\n
Gempita does not deal with Soeharto only, but all state assets
\nwhich were stolen. Well, the reports (about Soeharto's wealth)
\nare one of the factors that made us establish Gempita. The focus
\nof our activities in Gempita will be based on the data we obtain
\nfrom the public.<\/p>\n
Foreign reports said Soeharto and his family's wealth is worth
\nabout US$40 billion.<\/p>\n
We don't refer to the reports, but on the data from the
\npublic.<\/p>\n
Opposition leader Amien Rais said Soeharto should return his
\nwealth to the state. He also called on the people to \"forgive\"
\nhim if he voluntarily donated 95 percent of his wealth.<\/p>\n
In my opinion, whatever we do in Indonesia, we have to be on
\nthe legal tract. So, whoever is involved (in corruption), he or
\nshe must be handled in accordance with the law because Indonesia
\nrespects the supremacy of law.<\/p>\n
The solution (from Amien) is not in line with the law. If
\nthere is an indication that one committed a crime, for example
\ncorruption, the suspect must be tried and if found guilty, then
\nall of the wealth obtained from corruption must be confiscated
\nfor the state.<\/p>\n
If we settle things not in accordance with the law, this will
\ncreate legal uncertainty. This is not educative and dangerous. It
\ncould encourage other people to commit corruption because they
\nare not prosecuted. It could become a bad precedent. Other
\npresidents (who are involved in corruption) will ask for the
\nsame.<\/p>\n
Later on, if he (Soeharto) is proven guilty but you really
\ntake pity on him and you don't want him to stay behind bars,
\nthere is another way. After his accountability is completed and
\nthe wealth obtained illegally has been confiscated for the state,
\nthe President (B.J. Habibie) can give him the pardon. So it is
\nlike in South Korea -- after Kim Dae-Jung became president, he
\npardoned the (jailed) former presidents (Chun Doo-Hwan and Roh
\nTae-Woo).<\/p>\n
And by doing so, there will be legal certainty for Soeharto.
\nIf you release him right away after he gives the money -- without
\nany trial -- what is the legal basis? There is no legal certainty
\nfor Soeharto. At anytime, he can be arrested again.<\/p>\n
How about the call for a travel ban on Soeharto and his
\nfamily?<\/p>\n
To impose the travel ban, the government doesn't need the
\nevidence (of crimes). If the government sees indications that
\ntheir traveling abroad could give them the chance to hide their
\nwealth or cause problems relating to the efforts to save the
\nstate assets, the government can impose the travel ban.<\/p>\n
How about their human rights?<\/p>\n
We have the principle of presumption of innocence. Before they
\nare found guilty and before there is a court decision which has
\nfixed legal power, we should assume that they are not guilty.<\/p>\n
What should we do first if we want to settle Soeharto's case
\nin accordance with the law?<\/p>\n
We have to base it on the Criminal Code Procedures and our
\nlegal officers must be ready to take necessary actions. People
\nwill keep an eye on them.<\/p>\n
Experience shows that it is not easy to prove corruption.<\/p>\n
We need to improve our corruption law. Under the current law,
\nit is the prosecutors who should prove the charges. It is
\nnecessary to shift the burden of proof to the defendants, so that
\nthey will be required to prove that they are not guilty.<\/p>\n
But with the law that we already have, if everybody works hard
\nand honestly, the results will be quite sufficient.<\/p>\n
How do you see the honesty of our legal officers?<\/p>\n
Honesty is a must. The government must improve the quality of
\nhuman resources. We need tough officers.<\/p>\n
Even though the law is perfect, if the officers are not ready
\nand they are not tough, there won't be any sufficient
\nachievements. Officials who are not qualified must be replaced.
\nI don't have to mention names.<\/p>\n
You earlier said that you will convey the data about
\nmisappropriated state assets to the Attorney General's Office.
\nBut experience shows that the authorities do not follow up your
\nfindings on certain cases, such as those on Marsinah (a labor
\nactivist murdered in 1993) and the tragic incidents related to
\nthe takeover of the Indonesian Democratic Party's headquarters
\nfrom Megawati Soekarnoputri in 1996.<\/p>\n
Gempita does not have the authority to investigate the case,
\nto confiscate the wealth and to detain the corruptors. That's the
\nauthority of the police and prosecutors. We only give them the
\ndata, but I think this will help them.<\/p>\n
If the government does not follow up on our reports ... don't
\nask me. I can't give the answer, I am not within the system. You
\nmust ask the attorney general or the President.<\/p>\n
Now that the situation has changed, will you put pressure on
\nthe government to follow up on your previous findings?<\/p>\n
They probably did not follow up our findings and froze the
\ncases because of psychological burdens. Now that the burden has
\nbeen lifted, there is no reason to cover them up.<\/p>\n
There has been a strong demand to probe Soeharto's wealth only
\nafter he resigned. Can't we probe an incumbent president's
\nwealth?<\/p>\n
Of course we can. The law says so. Any suspect, whatever his
\nor her position, can be examined. But in the past, people were
\nafraid.<\/p>\n
Were you afraid?<\/p>\n
Of course not. I investigated many corruption cases when I was
\na prosecutor in Ujungpandang. But then I was transferred to
\nJakarta and become director general of correctional affairs. I
\nwas given a higher rank, I become a first echelon official, but I
\nhad less power, I could not prosecute people.<\/p>\n
You were a prosecutor for a long time. You must know how
\ndifficult it is to handle a corruption case. What are the main
\nobstructions?<\/p>\n
In my case, it was not that difficult because I did not
\ndiscuss beforehand with the central office (the Attorney
\nGeneral's Office). I know that if I discussed it first there
\nwould be a lot of problems.<\/p>\n
Are you saying the Attorney General's Office did not have the
\npolitical will to combat corruption?<\/p>\n
Maybe they have it now.<\/p>\n
You were stripped of your post as a prosecutor in the 1980s.
\nDo you see any change in the current situation?<\/p>\n
Things should be improved. It is important to have tough
\nofficers. And there should not be too much interference (from the
\nAttorney General's Office). If there are good officers, let them
\nhandle the cases by themselves thoroughly. Give them freedom to
\nwork.<\/p>\n
We need to improve both the law and the quality of legal
\nofficers. If we have not been able to improve the law, at least
\nthe quality of the people must be improved so that they can do
\ntheir jobs well.<\/p>\n
How did you become a member of the Human Rights Commission?<\/p>\n
When the committee was established (in 1993) Soeharto
\nappointed (former chief justice) Ali Said as the chairman and
\nthen Ali Said made a list of the members. I was included in the
\nlist. He then gave the list to Soeharto for approval. Soeharto
\ndid not have any reason to reject my presence in the committee.
\nMaybe he thought the committee had no teeth and that I would not
\nbe able to make any arrests.<\/p>\n
How do you see the rampant practices of corruption, collusion
\nand nepotism here?<\/p>\n
These have taken place for a long time. To avoid such
\npractices, there are two things to be done. First, one should not
\nbe in power for quite a long time. Second, don't accumulate the
\npower.<\/p>\n
How long is the appropriate time to hold power?<\/p>\n
For a president, two terms is the longest one.<\/p>\n
What is your comment on Habibie?<\/p>\n
Let him work first. He said he would make a new law on
\nelections. What's important is that you have pull the root,
\nSoeharto.<\/p>\n
But people said Habibie is part of the root.<\/p>\n
Well, it's difficult, there are too many parts, but what's
\nimportant is to let him work until the end of the election. He
\nhas set the date and promised a fair election. He has to prove
\nhis words.<\/p>",
"url": "https:\/\/jawawa.id\/newsitem\/human-rights-activist-takes-firm-line-on-corruption-1447893297",
"image": ""
},
"sponsor": "Okusi Associates",
"sponsor_url": "https:\/\/okusiassociates.com"
}