Gardner's book has many authors<\/p>\n
By Yenni Djahidin<\/p>\n
WASHINGTON (JP): Paul F. Gardner, a retired American diplomat,
\nsays that in writing Shared Hopes, Separate Fears -- Fifty Years
\nof U.S.-Indonesia Relations, he only put together information
\ncollected from other people.<\/p>\n
\"There were many, many authors of this book, and I simply put
\nit together,\" Gardner said.<\/p>\n
Gardner spent 10 years on and off in Indonesia, and was in
\nJakarta at the time of Gestapu, or the Gerakan 30 September
\n(Sept. 30 Movement) which launched the abortive coup against
\npresident Sukarno's government in 1965.<\/p>\n
He speaks Bahasa Indonesia fluently, although he admits that
\nhis reading is better. \"I don't have a chance to speak Indonesian
\nhere, but I read some 40 pages in Indonesian every day,\" he said
\nin a recent interview at the State Department cafeteria.<\/p>\n
Although retired from the foreign service, Gardner still does
\nconsultancy work for the State Department.<\/p>\n
Here is an excerpt from the interview.<\/p>\n
Question: Tell me about your book.<\/p>\n
Answer: It was the idea of the U.S.-Indonesia Society. I was
\nhesitant at first because I thought so much had been written
\nabout Indonesia that I wouldn't have anything more to add.
\nHowever, I discovered that there were some new things that could
\nbe added to it.<\/p>\n
For one thing, the State Department has released all its
\ndocuments, including all its documents on the PRRI\/Permesta
\nrebellion. So, that would be something new.<\/p>\n
The State Department released documents before and during the
\nGestapu. So, all of the American Embassy's thoughts, ideas, the
\ncontacts and everything else that was going on just before
\nGestapu and thereafter, have been released.<\/p>\n
And the other thing is that there are a good number of human
\nresources, which had not been fully developed. People who had
\nbeen to Indonesia in the old days, and are now in their 80s, for
\nexample. They could tell good stories.<\/p>\n
Prof. Sumitro Djojohadikusumo told me some wonderful stories
\nabout his experiences here in Washington. He also pointed me to
\nan American he had known back in 1947\/1948 in Indonesia, and came
\nback to work in State Department. His name is Carlton Ogbum, he
\nis 84, and he shared with me all of his reminiscences, his
\nletters home during the time he was there.<\/p>\n
So, I piggybacked on a lot of other authors. As I say in the
\nbook, there are many, many authors and I simply put it together.<\/p>\n
And there are many other good stories, including one from
\nKatinuharto Kartodirjo. He had been the head of the rebel air
\nforce during the PRRI\/Permesta rebellion and flew with the
\naviator who was shot down. He had some very interesting stories
\nto tell about that period.<\/p>\n
Once I got into it, I found so many stories were fascinating
\nand I was really very pleased to be able to share them with other
\npeople, including from a great number of Indonesians who were
\nvery forthcoming and told a good deal about the old days.<\/p>\n
All the old players are there: Nasution, Moerdani, and a
\ncouple others, saying good things and bad things about the United
\nStates, and Americans are saying good things and bad things about
\nIndonesia. The relationship was very tumultuous in its first 25
\nyears. Things were going up and down a lot.<\/p>\n
There were bad times and good times, but the bad times seemed
\nto be getting worse and the good times didn't seem to be getting
\nbetter until after Gestapu.<\/p>\n
And the last 30 years have been quite.<\/p>\n
It was fascinating for me because I had lived in Indonesia,
\nread a lot about it, but there was so much I didn't know that I
\nfound out from reading old documents and from talking to a lot of
\npeople.<\/p>\n
Q: How long did it take you to write the book?<\/p>\n
A: Two years off and on, because I had some other commitments.<\/p>\n
Q: What is the goal of this book?<\/p>\n
A: The book is called Shared Hopes, Separate Fears and the reason
\nfor that is, I thought during the first few years, we had the
\nsame aspirations, the same ideals but we had such greatly
\ndifferent fears, and the fears seemed to run things. I quoted
\nthat from Sudjatmoko, that \"fears can be important dangerous
\ncompanions\". I thought that was a very important statement.<\/p>\n
Q: What is your assessment on the U.S.-Indonesia relations now?<\/p>\n
A: We're having the same sort of relationship we have with a
\ngreat number of other countries. It is less exciting because the
\nrelationship is so broad and so very deeply based. It's very
\nstable.<\/p>\n
But there will be irritations and good times, and good issues
\nand bad issues. So, it depends on which issue you are working on.
\nIn some, we have problems such as human rights and we discuss
\nthat; and in certain trade issues, there are problems and some of
\nthese problems are never going to go away because they are based
\non differences, not just cultural, but geographic differences,
\nand those you just can't overcome.<\/p>\n
There will be geographical differences in our law of the sea
\npolicy. A continental sea-going power and an archipelago power
\nare going to have different views.<\/p>\n
There will be different views culturally on certain things,
\nespecially on internal affairs and on human rights, and there
\nwill be different views between a still developing country that
\nis developing very, very rapidly and a more mature economy (such)
\nas ours, because we have different interests.<\/p>\n
I think there is this type of trust now that we can really
\ntalk them out without the relationship ever being in danger. We
\nhave the type of trust that, I think, we can build on.<\/p>\n
I am still discouraged that Americans don't know much about
\nIndonesia. And that's part of the reason for the book: to get the
\ngeneral public more educated on Indonesia.<\/p>\n
Indonesians know more about the United States in some aspects
\nthan I do. So, there's not much I can tell them except about the
\nhistory and that, I mean, they are pretty well up-to-date on what
\nour policies are.<\/p>\n
But it's changing. Part of the book is making it change more
\nrapidly. To get Americans interested in Indonesia.<\/p>\n
The book was basically written for Americans, but I think
\nIndonesians will find it very, very interesting from what their
\nown people say. I don't think Indonesians know some of the things
\nthat we were up to in the old days.<\/p>\n
Some of them are very bad, as you'll find out in the book. The
\nbook is very honest. And some are good.<\/p>\n
Q: Do you have a favorite part or chapter in the book?<\/p>\n
A: Not really. I think the earlier chapters are much more
\ninteresting to me. I knew less about the earlier period. The
\nperiod I lived through, I knew a good deal about it, and, of
\ncourse that was a very interesting turbulent period, the last
\nyears of Sukarno and the beginning of the Soeharto regime.<\/p>\n
Obviously its a fascinating period, but since I lived through
\nit, it was less interesting to me because I already knew what
\nhappened. I knew the personalities involved and that sort of
\nthing. The book tries to describe a little bit about
\npersonalities, because they look so much, you know, how people
\nthought, and that's a great deal.<\/p>\n
But I didn't know so much about the American and the
\nIndonesian personalities in the earlier days. Sukarno, yes, but
\nnot some of the others in the earlier days, and I came to have a
\ntremendous appreciation of (former vice president Muhammad)
\nHatta.<\/p>\n
And I always had a tremendous appreciation of Muhammad Roem. I
\nthought he was one of the wisest, nicest, best men that I'd ever
\nknown. But I didn't know Hatta very well. I just met him and I
\nhad a great appreciation for his mind.<\/p>\n
And (former prime minister) Syahrir, I'd read more about
\nSyahrir before. Those two people had great minds, really
\ntremendous role quality minds, whichever way you look at it. It's
\nvery interesting reading about them.<\/p>\n
Q: Do you have any favorite leaders in Indonesia?<\/p>\n
A: I think Soeharto did a wonderful job at the beginning and, I
\nthink, the people that he had helping him with the economy at the
\nbeginning did a fabulous job; Soemitro is in there, Emil Salim,
\nSalim Widjojo.<\/p>\n
Their experiences and how they brought their American
\nexperiences and changed to fit the Indonesian environment. I hope
\nI caught that. That's what they were talking to me about. I think
\nall of those people were great heroes.<\/p>\n
Sukarno was one of the greatest orators I've ever heard.
\nBecause I was an Indonesian language officer, I had to go at
\nleast once a week to one of the rallies and listen to him speak.
\nHe was probably the greatest speaker I've heard in my life. But I
\ncan't agree with his politics. At the beginning, yes. At the
\nbeginning, throughout the first period, but not at the end of the
\nGuided Democracy.<\/p>\n
He was very anti-American at the end. But he was a fabulous
\nperson and a great personality to explore. And I am not sure any
\nof us fully understood him then, or now. But you can look at him
\nin various angles. I prefer to put his earlier days aside from
\nhis latter days when he was not among our friends. In fact, he
\nwas actually subtly suggesting that people push us out of the
\ncountry and that we were enemy number one.<\/p>",
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